How good can lyon become

[ned]

Please at least try to use commas and full stops...

Do not demean fellow cricket spectator

 

[Niall]

Gun performance to be fair, but lets not forget he averaged 140 with the ball in the UAE and was out performed by a past it Baber and rookie Shah, he needs to do it in the SC to be considered anywhere near Swann. He does have time on his side though and lots of it.

 

[smash84]

yeah, too early to say much about Lyon, needs to play more away from home

 

[ned]

yeah, too early to say much about Lyon, needs to play more away from home

If you were a cricket spectator it would not be hard to tell

 

[smash84]

If you were a cricket spectator it would not be hard to tell

yeah fair enough. I have never really seen him play much except his last series in the UAE. He was pretty toothless in that. I don't think a series average of 140 in the UAE would actually be his real worth though (given that he has done fairly well in Aus by the looks of it)

 

[TNT]

Gun performance to be fair, but lets not forget he averaged 140 with the ball in the UAE and was out performed by a past it Baber and rookie Shah, he needs to do it in the SC to be considered anywhere near Swann. He does have time on his side though and lots of it.

Bit strange to use one series to make that comparison especially when in the six tests Swann and Lyon have played together Lyon has comprehensively out performed Swann.

 

[ImpatientLime]

swann's elbow was shot to bits over the course of those matches.

 

[Niall]

yeah fair enough. I have never really seen him play much except his last series in the UAE. He was pretty toothless in that. I don't think a series average of 140 in the UAE would actually be his real worth though (given that he has done fairly well in Aus by the looks of it)

I'd be in the same boat as well, he is good as today proved, but needs to do it more often in the SC to be considered a world beater. The good news is he young, and a lot of the gun players of spin such as Kumar, Younis etc are close to retirement.

 

[GotSpin]

Would like Lyon to really lower his RR.

I happily accept that its tough for an offie who relies on large amounts of bounce to be taking poles all the time but he has a habit of leaking runs quite easily. Too many 4 balls, releasing pressure built up at the other end.

 

[the big bambino]

Australia have a nice supply of left-handed quicks, so he should regularly have some footmarks outside off to attack.

If he develops a variation that skids on, it will hugely benefit him. More than a carromball/armball.

This pins it. Commentators mentioned that he was staying over the wicket in the latest game. Those big hoofy Mitch marks helping no doubt. Perhaps one of the reasons offies don't traditionally do well in Australia is the relative rareness of left arm quicks creating footmarks for them. SLA have done better and maybe that's bcos every side has right arm over fast bowlers making foot marks for them. Leggies and SLA can exploit patches either side of the wicket. Whereas offies would find it hard to utilise spots made by fast right arm over.

Your comment about the slider in addition to the carrom is a good one too.

 

[Burgey]

Needs to stop appealing at the drop of a hat and more decisions might go his way.

He's a spinner. They always appeal too much.

 

[Antihippy]

Can't blame him from trying to stop the batsmen from padding up so much.

Most of the shouts were pretty decent too.

 

[Hurricane]

He's a spinner. They always appeal too much.

Can't blame him from trying to stop the batsmen from padding up so much.

Most of the shouts were pretty decent too.

Dan V goes up less and has a better hit rate with his appeals.

This is by memory although he just played a test - I am basing this off 2-3 years ago.

When I umpire if you waste my time with semi-spurious appeals then I will take all of your appeals with a grain of salt. Lyon was a contributor to his own woes with the umpiring decisions he received.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Would like Lyon to really lower his RR.

I happily accept that its tough for an offie who relies on large amounts of bounce to be taking poles all the time but he has a habit of leaking runs quite easily. Too many 4 balls, releasing pressure built up at the other end.

That comes with experience, obviously he has a fair amount but as a spinner he should still have his best years ahead of him. I guess if we revisit this in 2 years time and this aspect hasn't improved then it would be a big letdown. Time will tell.

 

[vic_orthdox]

There's also the fact that teams really want to attack him; they want to take him on to get a bigger overs load into Johnson and Harris. It makes sense, and hurts his RPO at times, but also gets him and the team wickets.

 

[TNT]

Dan V goes up less and has a better hit rate with his appeals.

This is by memory although he just played a test - I am basing this off 2-3 years ago.

When I umpire if you waste my time with semi-spurious appeals then I will take all of your appeals with a grain of salt. Lyon was a contributor to his own woes with the umpiring decisions he received.

That's just poor umpiring then, you make the decision regardless of the appeal.

 

[Valer]

That's just poor umpiring then, you make the decision regardless of the appeal.

It is. I doesn't make any less of a thing.

They umpire doesn't have to consciously think "man that Lyon guy is really over appealing here" for it matter in borderline choices.

 

[GotSpin]

Dont think his appealing Was to bad

 

[Top_Cat]

There's also the fact that teams really want to attack him; they want to take him on to get a bigger overs load into Johnson and Harris. It makes sense, and hurts his RPO at times, but also gets him and the team wickets.

Yeah this. He's the obvious target.

Guy's the first post-Warne spinner to be past 100 poles and one of the very few Aussie offies ever to do so (Yardley and Rowdy the only other two) and will be odds-on to go well past 200. He's obviously doing something right. As it stands, only needs a few more to go past Rowdy and he's number 1 anyway.

 

[watson]

I think that Lyon is good for at least 400 Test wickets and will end up a comfortable 2nd to Warne as Australia's leading wicket taking spinner.

Australia's top spinners
1. Shane Warne (leg) 708 (wickets)
2. Richie Benaud (leg) 248
3. Clarrie Grimmett (leg) 216
4. Stuart MacGill (leg) 208
5. Nathan Lyon (off) 162*
6. Bill O’Reilly (leg) 144
7. Hugh Trumble (off) 141
8. Ashley Mallett (off) 132
9. Bruce Yardley (off) 126
10. Ian Johnson (off) 109
11. George Giffen (off) 103


Read more: Nathan Lyon tipped to become Australia's best ever off-spinner
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Understated Lyon secures place in history

Without fanfare, Nathan Lyon has become Australian Test cricket's greatest ever off-spinning wicket-taker. And at just 27 year's old he is far from done yet.

There are some milestones in Australian cricket that seemingly live forever in the memory. Dennis Lillee breaking Richie Benaud's wicket-taking record at the MCG in 1981. Shane Warne bowling Andrew Struass for his 700th Test wicket on Boxing Day in 2006. Glenn McGrath's 500th wicket at Lord's on a thrilling opening day of the famous 2005 Ashes series. All have been replayed countless times in subsequent years, ensuring they are easily recalled by lovers of the game.But 20 or even 10 years from now, the most ardent of Australian cricket fans may struggle to remember when, where and how Nathan Lyon became the country's most prolific ever off-spinner.That was because Lyon's milestone - like most of his career so far – was understated and away from the glare of the spotlight.

Most Australians would have been tucked up in bed when the 27-year-old removed Kraigg Brathwaite on day two of this second Test in Kingston, moving past Hugh Trumble's mark of 141 Test wickets that had stood as the benchmark for more than a century. It was just past 5 o'clock on a Saturday morning on the east coast of Australia when Lyon struck, in the middle of footy season and with the Australians playing on the other side of the world.The wicket was typical of Lyon as well, marked with not much more than a raise of his hands in the air and a beaming smile as he accepted the congratulations of his teammates.That Lyon has achieved the feat at the age of 27 in his 41st Test says a little about the lack of genuinely great off-spinners Australia has produced, which in turn says a lot about how difficult an art off-spin is to bowl in Australian conditions.While Lyon is top of the pile in terms of Australian off-spinners, he is 22nd overall and equal fifth amongst all slow bowlers, with leggies Warne, Benaud, Clarrie Grimmett, Stuart MacGill ahead of him and Bill O'Reilly level on 144 wickets.Lyon has always preferred to restrict talk of records and personal achievements until his post-playing days, but he rightly allowed himself a brief moment of reflection after play.

Understated Lyon secures place in history | cricket.com.au