**Official** South Africa in New Zealand

[Blocky]

The biggest differences in Jesse's batting now compared to 2008 is how he transfers his weight and he rarely went aerial in red ball cricket. He was known for being able to pierce the cover field and keep the ball on the ground, now he's swatting across the line and has no idea where his off stump is.

A ton against Tim Southee and Trent Boult will convince me he's not a test match number nine biffer anymore. Ben Wheeler has just comprehensively dealt with him, and while he's a very promising bowler he's no Southee. Wagner, Henry and Bennett will all eat him alive this season if he faces them in his current state.

I'd love to field Baz, Latham, KW, Ross, Jesse, Neesh and OPWB as a top seven, but it ain't happening because Jesse would get destroyed in his current state. You don't remedy several years of slogging overnight.

I think Jesse said it best last year where he said that he wasn't taking his cricket as seriously because he needed to find the enjoyment factor, that lead to him trying to smash every ball out of the park and the amazing thing was, he had more innings where it came off for him than he did where it didn't. They say at Essex he really worked hard to turn around his poor form and by the end of the season was starting to come back into what he's used to.

The slogging for mine is probably the attitude he has at the moment "They're not selecting me anyway, so why don't I just keep my hitting abilities up for the T20 leagues to make sure I get selected and screw them" - the real acid test for him will be when he goes on the NZ A tour and whether or not he shows some grit at the crease.

I dunno, I recall reading that a few members of the dressing room were distinctly pissed off by his antics the night before the Eden Park test. Having said that it's also true that certain members within the side - especially his former flat mate Ross Taylor - remain Jesse supporters.

His biggest critic in the dressing room is also actually one of his better friends though - Baz felt entirely pissed off that Jesse went out with Doug Bracewell and got himself in the **** because ultimately Baz wants Jesse in his team and has a lot of time for the guy - Guptill, Taylor, Watling and Wagner are all good friends with Jesse too. I think the only players he doesn't have friendships with is Southee from what I've heard, because they're too similar and argue too much and Williamson, but then Williamson doesn't really have any friends outside of whoever is giving him throw-downs for four hours a day.

He's not Sachin Tendulkar. He is incredibly naturally talented and may well be up there with Sachin in that regard, but people have said the same types of things about Rohit Sharma.

If we're talking about a can't give a crap Ryder vs say Guptill then id still pick Ryder, but if it's a cbf Ryder vs Latham, Neesham or even Watling I'd back the latter three. They have enough talent and attitude that they'd be more likely to succeed.

Well, Sachin was also an unbelievable trainer, very similar to Ricky Ponting - first to arrive, last to leave at practice. That's never going to be a Jesse dynamic.

I just believe in picking teams who will likely win matches for NZ and at the moment, we have a massive hole in our ODI unit because of Williamson not being able to bowl and the lack of form/results/anything from the guys we're selecting at the top order. Jesse is a ODI/T20 must.

You can argue about his place in Test Cricket, but that's only because we (for once) have a very solid 3,4,5,7 - so unless Jesse adjusts and opens the batting, or is willing to come in at six and provide more bowling cover, he's not as much of an absolute necessity.

The other thing in terms of people saying "Well, Jesse just doesn't seem to want to play for NZ" - well, considering he feels he's been shafted and not supported by the team everytime he's been in it and feels that most of the issues he has comes down to the media being sensational about it, he'll definitely come off that way when he has people debating whether or not he should be in the side. Listening to Hesson and McCullum effectively say "It doesn't really matter about the runs he scores, we have to see other things out of him" - he might just feel "Well **** you, I'll go be an international superstar and do what Gayle has started to do"

NZ Cricket cannot afford that, because if NZ Cricket want to perform consistently and win matches, we need our best talent on the park.

 

[Blocky]

I think it speaks volumes of the NZ environment that they're still receptive to him.

I disagree, I think it speaks to the desperation and the reality of the fact that NZ just doesn't turn up enough international class players to be able to disregard someone who has proven himself capable at the level and not only capable but be a proven world beater.

You look at our current nightmare finding openers in test cricket or one day cricket. The only combination we can say had any consistent real success recently was Baz and Ryder as a ODI/T20 combination.

The other thing Jesse is probably pissed off about is the behaviour he sees out of players like Southee who gets away with some pretty lurid **** without any repercussion. If you're going to have a strict professional only rhetoric in your camp, you need that across all your players.

 

[social]

I disagree, I think it speaks to the desperation and the reality of the fact that NZ just doesn't turn up enough international class players to be able to disregard someone who has proven himself capable at the level and not only capable but be a proven world beater.

You look at our current nightmare finding openers in test cricket or one day cricket. The only combination we can say had any consistent real success recently was Baz and Ryder as a ODI/T20 combination.

The other thing Jesse is probably pissed off about is the behaviour he sees out of players like Southee who gets away with some pretty lurid **** without any repercussion. If you're going to have a strict professional only rhetoric in your camp, you need that across all your players.

It's always been the problem with dealing with mavericks - they are held to higher standards than their contemporaries due to past indiscretions

 

[Blocky]

It's always been the problem with dealing with mavericks - they are held to higher standards than their contemporaries due to past indiscretions

The problem with "He's a good team man" or "The culture in this group is great" is that it isn't merit based and it means ultimately you protect certain players (Guptill) because they're well liked and seen to be contributing in every area except performance, while a guy like Ryder is considered "too risky" because he god forbid might hurt a couple of peoples feelings while he's cracking runs for his country.

The same problem exists in business too, Steve Jobs probably wouldn't have gone very far in New Zealand.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

The problem with "He's a good team man" or "The culture in this group is great" is that it isn't merit based and it means ultimately you protect certain players (Guptill) because they're well liked and seen to be contributing in every area except performance, while a guy like Ryder is considered "too risky" because he god forbid might hurt a couple of peoples feelings while he's cracking runs for his country.

The same problem exists in business too, Steve Jobs probably wouldn't have gone very far in New Zealand.

Well like anything it's a matter of whether the impact of their skills is greater than the negative impact on their work/teammates. I don't know exactly how Ryder rates in this regard, though I do think his on-field results at the top level after a few years of bashing domestic trundlers are being overestimated.

Steve Jobs wouldn't go very far in NZ purely because NZ is a tiny market, there's plenty of business geniuses with sorely lacking people skills like him around here.

 

[Blocky]

Well like anything it's a matter of whether the impact of their skills is greater than the negative impact on their work/teammates. I don't know exactly how Ryder rates in this regard, though I do think his on-field results at the top level after a few years of bashing domestic trundlers are being overestimated.

Steve Jobs wouldn't go very far in NZ purely because NZ is a tiny market, there's plenty of business geniuses with sorely lacking people skills like him around here.

His run in the side last year culminated in us winning a lot more matches than we're used to winning. The complaint that he was getting himself out in the twenties fails to realise he was often 20 from 10 and got us off to a cracking start that we could build from. The idea that Jesse has somehow now become a good for nothing more than slogging player also fails to remember he turned around his season in England and started to put some consistent runs on the board there (while opening the bowling pretty effectively too)

As for Steve Jobs in NZ... I was pointing more so at the fact that most NZers can't work with dynamic personalities because of the tall poppy syndrome we exhibit.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I'm not arguing against Ryder in the shorter forms at all. It's purely the claim for him in the test side I don't agree with.

 

[hendrix]

let's be honest here though, a slogging Ryder is still more than what we've received from Rutherford and Fulton for over a year, and he's also a better fielder and bowls handy overs.

I was against the idea of him as a Test opener because I had hopes that he'd take over McCullum's middle order slot when he retires but I think we've got that covered with Anderson now.

 

[Blocky]

let's be honest here though, a slogging Ryder is still more than what we've received from Rutherford and Fulton for over a year, and he's also a better fielder and bowls handy overs.

I was against the idea of him as a Test opener because I had hopes that he'd take over McCullum's middle order slot when he retires but I think we've got that covered with Anderson now.

I still like the idea of him as an opener and also feel that Jesse openly wants to be a 50+ test cricketer. The idea that he's not capable of batting when he holds a first class average of 44 despite spending the last four years smashing everything and anything bowled at him just doesn't compute.

 

[Flem274*]

We should gif the attempt (if you could call it that) at batting against southee.

 

[Kippax]

The idea that Jesse has somehow now become a good for nothing more than slogging player also fails to remember he turned around his season in England and started to put some consistent runs on the board there

Given Chelmford's reputation, and the Gloucestershire attack's reputation, not too surprising tbh. He'd try a little bit harder with his temperament over there to try to get to 50, by the sounds. Then it was party time.

"It's been a tough start for me over here," Ryder said. "I've been here a month and am still trying to get used to the wickets but myself and Ravi just went out there to bat, we didn't chat about how to play and just relaxed - it paid off.

"I've been striking the ball well recently and that's helped me get back to what I know, keeping my head still and just keeping it simple."

What was most striking about his 133 was the diligence he showed. Both Ryder and Bopara took time to attune themselves to conditions, neither daring to unveil the expansive array of strokes they're known for; they knew their innings carried significant weight for differing reasons.

Yet Gloucestershire were hopeless, and unwavering in giving up easy runs despite Essex's measured approach. The green-tinged pitch proved more of a threat than this weaponless Gloucestershire attack.

Ryder is particularly strong through the off side as he throws his hands at anything full enough to drive and pounces on anything short with panache. Three spanking drives off Matt Taylor, as the sun beamed down on Chelmsford, hinted at what was to come and quickened the pulses of the members that had expected to see such disdainful batting from their big-money signing before now.

But Ryder was only clicking into gear. A towering six off Tom Smith very nearly caused damage to one of the houses at the Hayes Close End; after reaching his half-century from 90 balls, he went on to bludgeon a further 80 runs from the next 74 before getting a fine edge through to Adam Rouse, ending a stand worth 197. It was fitting that a powerful drive, which required little or no foot movement but stemmed from pure brutality, brought up his hundred.

Ryder had already carted a Joe Leach long hop into the crowd and he hit D'Oliveira and Morris for further sixes; having reached 50 from 70 balls, he struck 70 more from his next 47. D'Oliveira's 17 deliveries to Ryder were cashed in for 36 runs.

 

[Kippax]

First steps back in NZ fold for Jesse Ryder | Stuff.co.nz

Expect the name Jesse Ryder to appear in a New Zealand Cricket (NZC) team release tomorrow, for the first time since January.

It was understood Ryder would be included in the New Zealand A squad for four one-day games in Dubai next month, in the first tentative steps towards consideration for the Black Caps.

NZA, coached by Bob Carter, are scheduled to play 50-over games against United Arab Emirates, Afghanistan and Ireland (twice) from November 23 to December 1, during the third test against Pakistan in nearby Sharjah.

The team is expected to include World Cup contenders who aren't in the test squad such as Kyle Mills, Nathan McCullum, Martin Guptill and pacemen Mitchell McClenaghan, Matt Henry and Adam Milne.

The Black Caps are scheduled to play five ODIs against Pakistan in the UAE in December.