**Official** South Africa in New Zealand

[Flem274*]

This is both one of the funniest and most tragic 4 minutes of batting I've seen. So much ability gone to waste because he can't be ****ed trying. That Southee spell

 

[social]

D-Day nears for Ryder's future

Just so I get this straight, Ryder was the guy pounding the bowlers into the stands

Get the decision right?

UAE has a massive number of hooker bars/booze dives and makes NZ look like a bastion of abstinence

Select him and see whether he behaves himself because the alternatives are hacks

 

[Meridio]

I see very, very high potential for Ryder to get in serious **** in a place like Dubai. It's one thing getting publicly trashed in NZ/England; quite another in a strict Muslim country. Yes, Dubai's relatively liberal, but things can and do happen to Westerners who carry on like they do at home without a thought for the different way of life. Bad idea selecting him for UAE, imho.

 

[SteveNZ]

Ryder's body is obviously fit for purpose as he has just finished a CC season

I'd rather have 1 Ryder than 10 of our "great athlete" fast bowlers that are lucky to string a few matches together

As for the team environment, if the NZ dressing room is a happy place right now then the side has serious issues as no-one should enjoy getting flogged

No one's disappointed about his skin fold readings.

As his approach stands today, if selected for the World Cup he'd belt runs v minnow sides, ride a wave of anticipation and euphoria from the general public then completely fail against top nations. All those runs you've seen him score, those are against 120-130km plodders and nude spinners where he can stand and deliver, relying on his eye. That's not going to win us a World Cup as much as selecting the next bloke will, because that's not what we'll face in bigger games.

Jesse, nor any player in the world, is adept at scoring international runs unless his approach is right. Does he give a toss about the World Cup? Not convinced.

And you're saying pick him in a squad, get him involved...they did. The NZ selectors named him in the North v South game as a way of assimilating him back in. He refused. Hardly the mindset of a bloke ready to serve his country at a tournament in 3 months, is it?

This is basically how it is: If Jesse wants to be in a black shirt in February, he will be. No question. If he doesn't, he'll be in a red Renegades one. That's as simple as it is. And whichever one he's in will be the best result for New Zealand.

 

[Bahnz]

D-Day nears for Ryder's future

I honestly would be very surprised if Jesse even agrees to go. He took a “Yeah, nah” attitude to A-tours before he’d even made his debut for New Zealand. Can't see him getting on board now. Though I suppose he might fancy a free trip to go see the Burj Khalifa.

 

[hendrix]

It's easy for Aussies to say there are no other class NZ batsmen available but Neesham has been just as impressive in his Test career as Jesse and Tom Latham has had a very good start to his first class career. They're both good players of pace and spin and then there's BJ Watling who can't even make the squad.

I do think that Ryder is better than all of them IF he can give a crap but if he can't our top order won't be sitting ducks. I think the early season rustiness has been well exposed by Steyn and Philander and I have doubts about Brownlie and Guptill, but there are good batsmen in the squad. It's just a matter of combinations and positions, which I think McHesson has got wrong.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

TLDR - Ryder is good by NZ standards, but he's not good enough to literally just show up and blow everyone away without a tiny bit of work ethic.

 

[Blocky]

Actually, Ryder as a confirmed alcoholic with poor fitness habits and a completely lacking nutrition diet was the Ryder who managed to make the Black Caps side in the first instance and do extremely well in both test cricket and limited overs cricket.

Ryder as a fitter leaner figure came back into the side after an extended absence and scored a double tonne in tests and one of the fastest centuries you'll ever see, interspliced with putting NZ ahead of the run-rate in every other match he played ( might only have got twenties in most of the innings, but they took the sting out of how bad Guptill was at the start )

As John Wright states, Ryder has the best hand-eye co-ordination of any player he's ever met except one, Tendulkar - even then, he said they were on the same level. He is a natural in the day and age of overly trained cardboard cut-outs. He can literally just show up and blow most players away and as he showed in Essex, even when he's not fully firing with the bat he finds other ways to contribute.

The major issue is that most people take a case of "Bad dog, BAD DOG" with Jesse - trying to punish or remediate his action with stern warnings and punishment, that simply won't work with him. He needs to be managed, coached and yes, tolerated - because he won't do things the normal private school boy way, because he's not a normal private school boy. Essex had it right, treat him with respect, let him moderate his own limits and behavior and treat him like an adult and he performs.

Putting him with minders? Telling him he has particular curfews and set behavior? His whole upbringing means he'll rebel against that because he didn't have effective parenting structures, he had deadbeat parents who didn't give him that discipline.

In terms of players with terrible attitudes who were tolerated for their brilliance? NZ and Aus are littered with them - and the fact is that Jesse is pretty well liked by most of the guys he plays cricket with - something you can't accuse Crowe or Hadlee of being.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

it's not in question that he can show up and blow 130kph domestic trundlers away with zero pressure. The question is will that work in a test match against SA or Australia. Maybe he'll try to change his gameplan - but the bad habits of swatting crappy domestic bowlers will remain.

 

[Blocky]

it's not in question that he can show up and blow 130kph domestic trundlers away with zero pressure. The question is will that work in a test match against SA or Australia. Maybe he'll try to change his gameplan - but the bad habits of swatting crappy domestic bowlers will remain.

It'll work better than anyone not named Taylor, Williamson, McCullum or Watling I'd dare wager.

 

[Athlai]

Yeah Jesse is definitely not unpopular with the dressing room, more just embarrassing with the media.

 

[Flem274*]

The biggest differences in Jesse's batting now compared to 2008 is how he transfers his weight and he rarely went aerial in red ball cricket. He was known for being able to pierce the cover field and keep the ball on the ground, now he's swatting across the line and has no idea where his off stump is.

A ton against Tim Southee and Trent Boult will convince me he's not a test match number nine biffer anymore. Ben Wheeler has just comprehensively dealt with him, and while he's a very promising bowler he's no Southee. Wagner, Henry and Bennett will all eat him alive this season if he faces them in his current state.

I'd love to field Baz, Latham, KW, Ross, Jesse, Neesh and OPWB as a top seven, but it ain't happening because Jesse would get destroyed in his current state. You don't remedy several years of slogging overnight.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah Jesse is definitely not unpopular with the dressing room, more just embarrassing with the media.

I dunno, I recall reading that a few members of the dressing room were distinctly pissed off by his antics the night before the Eden Park test. Having said that it's also true that certain members within the side - especially his former flat mate Ross Taylor - remain Jesse supporters.

 

[Bahnz]

A ton against Tim Southee and Trent Boult will convince me he's not a test match number nine biffer anymore. Ben Wheeler has just comprehensively dealt with him, and while he's a very promising bowler he's no Southee. Wagner, Henry and Bennett will all eat him alive this season if he faces them in his current state.

Well I doubt he's going to face Wagner given they play in the same team

It's also true that he monstered a Canterbury attack with Henry and Bennett last season. There will be days when Jesse is just too good.

 

[hendrix]

He's not Sachin Tendulkar. He is incredibly naturally talented and may well be up there with Sachin in that regard, but people have said the same types of things about Rohit Sharma.

If we're talking about a can't give a crap Ryder vs say Guptill then id still pick Ryder, but if it's a cbf Ryder vs Latham, Neesham or even Watling I'd back the latter three. They have enough talent and attitude that they'd be more likely to succeed.

 

[Flem274*]

I'd back Ryder to ski downhill once or twice against Sri Lanka on a New Zealand pitch where Herath has no help and after the new ball wears off, but this version of Jesse against Anderson and Broad next year would be over very quickly. And anyone who thinks he'll get in line to Mitchell Johnson is being very optimistic.

He isn't giving the vibes he's all that interested anymore, and that's ok. He doesn't have to want to play at the highest level just because we want him to. I can understand him just having some fun with the game domestically, in England and in T20 tournaments around the world because fun is what the game is meant to be. But he shouldn't be near the national side until he gets his passion back, his real "I need to play international cricket more than anything in the world" passion. I even think he would agree with me.

 

[SteveNZ]

Actually, Ryder as a confirmed alcoholic with poor fitness habits and a completely lacking nutrition diet was the Ryder who managed to make the Black Caps side in the first instance and do extremely well in both test cricket and limited overs cricket.

Ryder as a fitter leaner figure came back into the side after an extended absence and scored a double tonne in tests and one of the fastest centuries you'll ever see, interspliced with putting NZ ahead of the run-rate in every other match he played ( might only have got twenties in most of the innings, but they took the sting out of how bad Guptill was at the start )

As John Wright states, Ryder has the best hand-eye co-ordination of any player he's ever met except one, Tendulkar - even then, he said they were on the same level. He is a natural in the day and age of overly trained cardboard cut-outs. He can literally just show up and blow most players away and as he showed in Essex, even when he's not fully firing with the bat he finds other ways to contribute.

The major issue is that most people take a case of "Bad dog, BAD DOG" with Jesse - trying to punish or remediate his action with stern warnings and punishment, that simply won't work with him. He needs to be managed, coached and yes, tolerated - because he won't do things the normal private school boy way, because he's not a normal private school boy. Essex had it right, treat him with respect, let him moderate his own limits and behavior and treat him like an adult and he performs.

Putting him with minders? Telling him he has particular curfews and set behavior? His whole upbringing means he'll rebel against that because he didn't have effective parenting structures, he had deadbeat parents who didn't give him that discipline.

In terms of players with terrible attitudes who were tolerated for their brilliance? NZ and Aus are littered with them - and the fact is that Jesse is pretty well liked by most of the guys he plays cricket with - something you can't accuse Crowe or Hadlee of being.

Yeah but new to international cricket Jesse gave a ****. This one doesn't seem to.

You know what cricket is like - it's a sport where you can succeed with absolute bloody-mindedness or achieve very little despite all the ability in the world.

Jesse's eye (again, no one is doubting this) means very little in international cricket if he doesn't have the focus to go along with it. The way he's playing, he's nicking out for 12 off 12 more often than not - exactly how he performed in the ODI series against India last time out, from memory.

No one's asking Jesse to swear off the piss, run 14s in the beep test or anything else. They're asking to commit to wanting to play for NZ and succeed, toe the line to a certain degree and pick his spots when it comes to going out. No one had an issue in him going out until he took chunks out of toilet windows, other humans and possibly blew them in the changing rooms the next day.

I think it speaks volumes of the NZ environment that they're still receptive to him.

 

[Bahnz]

Just to be clear, I take it that you're saying that Jesse blew chunks, and not other humans, in the dressing room...

 

[SteveNZ]

Just to be clear, I take it that you're saying that Jesse blew chunks, and not other humans, in the dressing room...

Haha, yes I think that's what I was trying to say. He's selfish, so I don't think the latter would've happened.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

The biggest differences in Jesse's batting now compared to 2008 is how he transfers his weight and he rarely went aerial in red ball cricket. He was known for being able to pierce the cover field and keep the ball on the ground, now he's swatting across the line and has no idea where his off stump is.

A ton against Tim Southee and Trent Boult will convince me he's not a test match number nine biffer anymore. Ben Wheeler has just comprehensively dealt with him, and while he's a very promising bowler he's no Southee. Wagner, Henry and Bennett will all eat him alive this season if he faces them in his current state.

This is an extreme case of Phlegm hyperbole. And if there's one case/story that requires no further hyperbole, it's the sad and longwinded tale of Jesse Ryder.