**Official** South Africa in New Zealand

[BeeGee]

yeah that's true and probably even a better batsman as well in terms of consistency but this is where the risk-reward of developing a player comes into it. And also the fact that there are other people occupying different roles in the team.

What is his bowling role in the team?

 

[Dan]

Faf dropping a c bomb on live tv

Watching with no sound at uni. Is that why they got him off almost immediately, jammed in Ross for what seemed like 2 minutes (according to the on-screen thing) and then went to Kepler Wessels?

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Dont think we will get any more play today. This rains not going away anytime soon

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Yeah, but that's the whole problem. He's got one of the worst pitch maps of any mid-130's bowler that I've seen.

Slowing down doesn't automatically make a bowler more accurate. Often just ****s their rhythm up. Neesh's problem is falling away through the delivery stride when under pressure which he's well aware of - if he fixes that he should be able to bowl more accurately AND probably a shade quicker.

 

[_Ed_]

Dont think we will get any more play today. This rains not going away anytime soon

Pretty miserable, isn't it? I'm working at the races down the road and it's fairly bleak all around.

 

[Prince EWS]

Jimmy Chigumbura really struggling with the swing today.

Haha I'm so glad this caught on.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

booo hamilton

 

[Hurricane]

booo hamilton

Nah Hamilton has been good to us over the years and it was crappy in my neck of the woods as well. Dunners and university oval is where I reserve my snide remarks for.

 

[SteveNZ]

Doug Walters used to drink a beer or 2 in the dressing room before batting in a test match

Man management is not about treating everybody in exactly the same way and NZ are doing themselves a disservice if that is the approach that they are taking with Ryder

Doug Walters didn't put his hand through a toilet window, get into fights, and Doug Walters played in a different era where the consideration of inadequate preparation compared to your team mates wasn't an issue.

The point many are missing is that Jesse hasn't actually shown for a long time that he's capable of producing international-quality performances whilst not in peak physical and mental shape. His ODI numbers, save for the WI slog fest ton are poor. His Test numbers were poor before his hiatus. His T20 numbers are only ok.

Yes he's capable of bludgeon in county and domestic attacks, even Ireland, when in the space he's in now. But if you just say bugger it Jesse, you're better than the next guy regardless of your commitment and conditioning so here's a spot...you're likely to get sub-par results and a potentially fractured environment.

Said it before, he either commits fully or he takes his half-arse elsewhere

 

[hendrix]

Dunners and university oval is where I reserve my snide remarks for.

I would have been on your side with this one but having lived in Dunners for the past year and a half I've come to realise it's not more rainy than Auckland or Wellington.

 

[Bahnz]

Doug Walters didn't put his hand through a toilet window, get into fights, and Doug Walters played in a different era where the consideration of inadequate preparation compared to your team mates wasn't an issue.

The point many are missing is that Jesse hasn't actually shown for a long time that he's capable of producing international-quality performances whilst not in peak physical and mental shape. His ODI numbers, save for the WI slog fest ton are poor. His Test numbers were poor before his hiatus. His T20 numbers are only ok.

Yes he's capable of bludgeon in county and domestic attacks, even Ireland, when in the space he's in now. But if you just say bugger it Jesse, you're better than the next guy regardless of your commitment and conditioning so here's a spot...you're likely to get sub-par results and a potentially fractured environment.

Said it before, he either commits fully or he takes his half-arse elsewhere

Yeah, I don't think that Jesse has taken his batting seriously since the 2011 World Cup. Particularly in the past few seasons if you watch ball by ball of his batting, it's clear that he's not really trying. I guess that says something about how amazingly gifted he is that he can still dominate at domestic cricket whilst half-arseing it, but he's never going to get away with playing like that at the international level, as his efforts against India showed last summer. Given that it's been 4 years now since he last showed that he could play like a proper batsman, I'm not sure he could even play that way now if he tried.

 

[social]

Ryder's body is obviously fit for purpose as he has just finished a CC season

I'd rather have 1 Ryder than 10 of our "great athlete" fast bowlers that are lucky to string a few matches together

As for the team environment, if the NZ dressing room is a happy place right now then the side has serious issues as no-one should enjoy getting flogged

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Team environment =/= satisfaction with performance. You can have an excellent dressing room atmosphere while all being disappointed with the result.

 

[jcas0167]

Yeah, I don't think that Jesse has taken his batting seriously since the 2011 World Cup. Particularly in the past few seasons if you watch ball by ball of his batting, it's clear that he's not really trying. I guess that says something about how amazingly gifted he is that he can still dominate at domestic cricket whilst half-arseing it, but he's never going to get away with playing like that at the international level, as his efforts against India showed last summer. Given that it's been 4 years now since he last showed that he could play like a proper batsman, I'm not sure he could even play that way now if he tried.

Isn't that just his languid style of play? He's never going to look like an Alan Border type battler. People said the same about David Gower, who I recall the English commentators likened Jesse too when he emerged in 2008.

 

[Bahnz]

Isn't that just his languid style of play? He's never going to look like an Alan Border type battler. People said the same about David Gower, who I recall the English commentators likened Jesse too when he emerged in 2008.

I'm not referring to his languid strokeplay. I'm referring to the way that he tries to smash every 3rd ball he faces for 4 - regardless of the format, conditions or match situation. When Jesse took his cricket seriously, he was very judicious in his strokeplay. He played the ball on its merits (as he judged them). Yes, his batting was on the aggressive side, but that's pretty standard in the modern era. His test strike rate is only 55, lower than Taylor's and McCullum's.

Nowadays, he just walks out and starts trying to biff the ball from the start. There are times when he takes great swipes across the line to good length balls, and others when he'll bunt down a ball a meter outside off stump with an angled bat. He never leaves, never uses his feet and just tries to wallop it. Which is fine against crap bowlers on flat domestic decks. But put him up against Dale Steyn and Vernon Philander on an October pitch, and I'd be surprised if he made it through 5 overs without nicking out. I still remember that time in the 12/13 season when he faced up to Southee - he looked like a 7 year old who'd wandered onto the field by mistake. The judgement that was the bedrock of his early international career runs is almost entirely absent when I watch him nowadays, and that leaves me thinking that he really wouldn't make a huge difference if he was brought back into the side.

 

[Pratters]

His batting might have become a bit more responsible in a year? He has played a season for Essex which shows some discipline. This domestic season, and possibly the next will be acid tests. Ryder is still just 30 and if he can hold his head, he has a few years of cricket left in him. I like the quotes from McCullum. Saying that Ryder has to show the right signs sends the right message. You cannot take your place for granted even if you are a superstar. McCullum hasn't shut the door on Ryder but says they need to see far more regarding off field stuff.

 

[social]

I'm not referring to his languid strokeplay. I'm referring to the way that he tries to smash every 3rd ball he faces for 4 - regardless of the format, conditions or match situation. When Jesse took his cricket seriously, he was very judicious in his strokeplay. He played the ball on its merits (as he judged them). Yes, his batting was on the aggressive side, but that's pretty standard in the modern era. His test strike rate is only 55, lower than Taylor's and McCullum's.

Nowadays, he just walks out and starts trying to biff the ball from the start. There are times when he takes great swipes across the line to good length balls, and others when he'll bunt down a ball a meter outside off stump with an angled bat. He never leaves, never uses his feet and just tries to wallop it. Which is fine against crap bowlers on flat domestic decks. But put him up against Dale Steyn and Vernon Philander on an October pitch, and I'd be surprised if he made it through 5 overs without nicking out. I still remember that time in the 12/13 season when he faced up to Southee - he looked like a 7 year old who'd wandered onto the field by mistake. The judgement that was the bedrock of his early international career runs is almost entirely absent when I watch him nowadays, and that leaves me thinking that he really wouldn't make a huge difference if he was brought back into the side.

He hasn't played test cricket since 2011 with 99.99% of the blame for that lying at his own feet (and I am probably being generous with that assessment) so I have no doubt that his technique has deteriorated

HOWEVER, all I am saying is that there are numerous players in and around the NZ squad who are not fit to wash his jock-strap and never will be

What's more if you are going to judge Ryder by domestic performances, then he must be in

With a WC around the corner, the management speak coming out of the Black Caps is ludicrous - pick him in a SQUAD and see how he integrates as the upside he offers is huge when compared to some of his competition

 

[Kippax]

I still remember that time in the 12/13 season when he faced up to Southee - he looked like a 7 year old who'd wandered onto the field by mistake. The judgement that was the bedrock of his early international career runs is almost entirely absent when I watch him nowadays, and that leaves me thinking that he really wouldn't make a huge difference if he was brought back into the side.

 

[Kippax]

3:35....some prophetic stuff there, for a Veitchy radio show.

 

[Kippax]

D-Day nears for Ryder's future

Jesse Ryder's future with the Black Caps will become clearer towards the end of the week.

Ryder is available for selection in a New Zealand 'A' team heading to the UAE, but that will be announced on Friday.

It's been delayed until opener Hamish Rutherford finishes a fitness test on a finger injury.

But, Hesson says Ryder will be considered.

He says it's important they get the decision right.