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*Official* English Football Season 2014-15

Uppercut

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Anyone have any thoughts on the Ched Evans debate?
I think the crux of it is that no one really believes that he's "served his time". I don't think there's anyone who thinks 2 and a half years for rape is an adequate punishment. I mean, I'm sure there are reasons for that, I don't mean to criticise the judge over a case I know basically nothing about. But you can't expect society to just accept such a small punishment and move on.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Anyone have any thoughts on the Ched Evans debate?
From a society point of view he's scum who should be in prison for life.

From a football point of view I don't quite follow Nigel Clough's continued stance that it's nothing to do with him whether Sheffield United sign him. He's not currently under any contract to them so I see no reason to even think about having him back and fail to see that they have any decision to make. If the manager of the football team doesn't want him then there'd be little point in signing him anyway.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
5 years is what the sentencing guidelines say is the starting point for rape - whether that's right or wrong is one issue, and the facts of the case having passed me by I make no comment on that, but he has done his time and should be free to do what he wants, and if that doesn't include paying some proper compensation to his victim then I hope she drags him through the civil courts to get it - let's face he's going to be able to afford it, even at Bramall Lane wage rates
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
As a bit of stats geekery to finish, none of these mention Scholes, using the first link (and i think the arsenal blog mentions it), his assist/game ratio is very poor, yet theres been a picture going round twitter comparing Scholes/Xavi/Pirlo, and in around the same no of league games Scholes has scored and assisted twice as much as the other two.... 3 of the most creative midfielders of the last 20 years (throw in Zidane/Iniesta in that mix, and Gerard too, who the first link puts as one of the highest creators in Prem history)
Scholes began his career as basically a second striker or AM, Xavi didn't and while Pirlo did it wasn't for long. In terms of creating from the deep, there are really only 2 figures (that I know of) that stand that far ahead and are comparable to the best playmakers who usually reside in the final 3rd: Gerrard and Pirlo.
 

Cabinet96

Hall of Fame Member
Would be interested to know whether those who didn't think Vermaelen leaving Arsenal would hinder them think that Monreal is a better CB.
 

Tangles

International Vice-Captain
Have to stretch the weekend to maximise tv coverage and revenue. Sky's Monday show is awesome though.
Since I live in the US I can't share that sentiment. DVR and avoid score then. The one benefit is score avoiding is easy when it's a minor sport to Americans.
 

Uppercut

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Would be interested to know whether those who didn't think Vermaelen leaving Arsenal would hinder them think that Monreal is a better CB.
Sagna was better at CB than Vermaelen so it's not that much of a stretch to think Monreal might be, although obviously it's not ideal. It's not really a fair comment because Chambers was his replacement and he's suspended/needed to cover Debuchy's injury.

Clearly if the plague strikes down all of your CBs you'd rather Vermaelen was there, but getting rid was still a good deal since his reputation was exceeding his performances by such a wide margin.
 
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cpr

International Coach
The issue with the Evans situation is people are aghast he's so unrepentant and refuses to quietly accept his guilt. He won't stop telling people it was consensual. The fact that judge gave him the minimum sentence may reflect some doubt of his guilt in the judges eyes (usually someone who refuses to acknowledge guilt gets a tougher penalty, no?)

I've heard so many stories over the years from one of my best friends, who used to do a lot of events management in Manchester, so knew most of the footballers quite well (she did date one for a while, until he admitted he wasn't actually a plumber but played for Utd, so she chucked him,as she knew what they were like!), she also knew many of the girls who hung around the footballers - some were friends, colleagues, friends of friends, common faces at her events.... Anyway the stories are horrific. Footballers were regularly getting stung for cash purely because they were a sucker for a pair of things to suck on... some girls (and were talking a small minority) would sleep with players, then demand money to stop them going to the press. If that didn't work they'd demand money to stop them crying rape. Basically it was their livelihood, but the players would fall for it time and time again - many didn't care and weren't fussed to chuck £10k a girls way to shut them up, and if only 1/10 girls were like that, well it figures out cheaper than hookers. One certain ex-England player would get stung every 3 months or so, he was that bad, but he'd pay up and laugh it off..... Then theres the ones who'd deliberately get pregnant, and demand a fortune for an abortion (cheaper than maintenance after all!).

Part of me feels Evans might've got himself caught up in something like this - after all why be drawing attention to yourself 3 years later by shouting innocence? If you've got no proof to say this is the case then offering it as your defence would really ​land you in the **** if it doesn't work.... I dunno though
 

cpr

International Coach
Scholes began his career as basically a second striker or AM, Xavi didn't and while Pirlo did it wasn't for long. In terms of creating from the deep, there are really only 2 figures (that I know of) that stand that far ahead and are comparable to the best playmakers who usually reside in the final 3rd: Gerrard and Pirlo.
I wouldn't say Scholes played much as a second striker beyond his first couple of years. We always tended to play 2 up top, Cantona doing the withdrawn role, then Sherringham. Had an abundance of attacking talent that Scholes was forced back into the midfield. The natural balance was he'd get forward more than Keane/Butt, because A) he can shoot and B) can't tackle, but it was definitely a midfield role.

In comparison (on that site anyway) Gerrard steams miles ahead of Scholes in terms of assists, and also has a scoring record not to dissimilar really. Without wanting to open the old midfielder debate, surely no-one would argue Gerrard is twice the player of Scholes/4x Pirlo or Xavi....
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
The issue with the Evans situation is people are aghast he's so unrepentant and refuses to quietly accept his guilt. He won't stop telling people it was consensual. The fact that judge gave him the minimum sentence may reflect some doubt of his guilt in the judges eyes (usually someone who refuses to acknowledge guilt gets a tougher penalty, no?)

I've heard so many stories over the years from one of my best friends, who used to do a lot of events management in Manchester, so knew most of the footballers quite well (she did date one for a while, until he admitted he wasn't actually a plumber but played for Utd, so she chucked him,as she knew what they were like!), she also knew many of the girls who hung around the footballers - some were friends, colleagues, friends of friends, common faces at her events.... Anyway the stories are horrific. Footballers were regularly getting stung for cash purely because they were a sucker for a pair of things to suck on... some girls (and were talking a small minority) would sleep with players, then demand money to stop them going to the press. If that didn't work they'd demand money to stop them crying rape. Basically it was their livelihood, but the players would fall for it time and time again - many didn't care and weren't fussed to chuck £10k a girls way to shut them up, and if only 1/10 girls were like that, well it figures out cheaper than hookers. One certain ex-England player would get stung every 3 months or so, he was that bad, but he'd pay up and laugh it off..... Then theres the ones who'd deliberately get pregnant, and demand a fortune for an abortion (cheaper than maintenance after all!).

Part of me feels Evans might've got himself caught up in something like this - after all why be drawing attention to yourself 3 years later by shouting innocence? If you've got no proof to say this is the case then offering it as your defence would really ​land you in the **** if it doesn't work.... I dunno though
McDonald was found not guilty though. Suggests to me that Evans crossed a line
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Play the Last-man-standing people FFS it's one of the few decent traditions of cricketweb left.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Well yeah but doesn't that enhance the case against Evans? I get what you're saying in relation to McDonald, but there were two of them in that room and only one was found guilty
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Clearly not looking after their players properly in training. His whinging about England's training methods was always going to bite him on the arse. Fully expecting Liverpool fans to blame Roy Hodgson.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I wouldn't say Scholes played much as a second striker beyond his first couple of years. We always tended to play 2 up top, Cantona doing the withdrawn role, then Sherringham. Had an abundance of attacking talent that Scholes was forced back into the midfield. The natural balance was he'd get forward more than Keane/Butt, because A) he can shoot and B) can't tackle, but it was definitely a midfield role.

In comparison (on that site anyway) Gerrard steams miles ahead of Scholes in terms of assists, and also has a scoring record not to dissimilar really. Without wanting to open the old midfielder debate, surely no-one would argue Gerrard is twice the player of Scholes/4x Pirlo or Xavi....
Scholes even when he was a midfielder for much of his career wasn't really holding and tended to bomb forward in a Lampardesque way. I just think comparing him with Pirlo and Xavi in that regard is a bit unfair to compare their numbers since they primarily played deeper for much of their career. Scholes is generally underrated though, people forget how good he was going forward. I guess though you could still make the argument Scholes (and Gerrard) could flourish where neither Xavi nor Pirlo could and hence they deserve the praise those numbers bring.

Anyway I wasn't saying that Gerrard's stats make him several times better than the others. I was just making the distinction that in reality, of all those famous holding midfield players there is a misconception when it comes to affecting goals (creating or scoring them) from the deep and the two that truly stand out are Pirlo and Gerrard. If you just took their seasons as deep lying playmakers they still compare with the best playmakers (even your David Silvas, etc) that play further up. Note, I know Xavi had a crazy season assisting 20 goals and I'm sure Scholes had his ones too, but I am talking about a general trend.

Dude's like a F1 car, high quality but high maintenance.
 
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flibbertyjibber

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Clearly not looking after their players properly in training. His whinging about England's training methods was always going to bite him on the arse. Fully expecting Liverpool fans to blame Roy Hodgson.
Was waiting for a comment like that. Shame for Sturridge but you can't help but have a giggle at it after the way Rodgers has been gobbing off.
 

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