OverratedSanity
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What? No he doesn't. Jassy would have a stroke if that happened. I get it, you like sangakkara. We do as well. But stop pulling stats out of your behind.
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How good is Sanga?
- Thread starter CWB304
- Start date
indiaholic
International Captain
G.I.Joe
International Coach
What does he average as a pure spider?
Blocky
Banned
Since he gave away the gloves - actually I was wrong, he averages 37.2 in South Africa
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
But every other nation he averages higher than 40 against as a batsman only.
I concur.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
So can all the other batsmen remove portions of their early career that don't look as good as well then?
Blocky
Banned
Sure, if they were wicket keeping or known as an all rounder.
Jacque Kallis' average really took off when he started to bowl less overs and was used sparingly.
simonlee48
School Boy/Girl Captain
AB as keeper batsman averaged 56.96 - Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
AB as pure batsman averaged below 50 - Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Andy as keeper batsman averaged 53.70 - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
Andy as pure batsman averaged 35 - Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
It's clear that different players will have lows and highs at different time It has absolutely nothing to so with if they were keeping or not keeping. Sanga's performacne went in one direction but AB/Andy performance went in other direction. There is no set formula here.
Removing periods, when Sanga was keeping, has absolutely no merit. He batted to best of his ability just like AB and Andy did while keeping.
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Furball
Evil Scotsman
Also when he got a few minnows to bash instead of facing good bowlers.
simonlee48
School Boy/Girl Captain
That's different than arguing that Sanga would have played a lot better in his early days if he was not keeping. He simply followed the normal trend of getting better when reached to a certain age.
He wasn't great in early days, batted great in middle and again in the last 5 years nothing extraordinary about his batting. That's how I see it. Nothing to do with stats at all here. I saw him bat during the entire duration. Before some on jumps out me, let me clarify, I am not saying that Sanga of the last 5 years is the same as Snaga of early years. Sanga has become far better in capitalizing against not so good bowling unit. I was pointing out a different trend.
Sanga's first 5 years against better bowling units: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
Sanga's last 5 years against same opposition: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...9;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting
Sanga's in middle years against same bowling units: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...5;spanval2=span;template=results;type=batting
Sanga's middle years against everyone: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...5;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
Sure, he played less matches in middle years but he was piling up runs against everyone in middle. That was his best period. This whole talk about Sanga as pure batsman will make many of us believe that he was consistently great performer as soon as he gave up keeping but that's not true. He played brilliantly in middle and at that age most batsmen play better. Batsmen often decline with age. That's what happened with Sanga but this whole trend gets lost here because his aggregate runs/tons have kept getting better by piling up runs against lesser quality bowling units. When you play really well, you perform against most oppositions put in front of you and that's what happened in middle years. I won't read much into his avg as keeper and avg as pure batsman being related to keeping.
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Wow, this thread still going? Haven't had time to read through, but is anyone still tossing out former standbys like "yet to score a century on a green top in SA", or "averages less than 45 in [whatever random country is being used as the gold standard for judging batsmen's abilities, the better to knock Sanga]?" Probably 60 per cent of posts in this thread - just above Sanga's Test average - can be filed under Tuggin' on Superman's Cape. 
The Sanga has played 14 series outside the subcontinent. If we take an average of 40+ as being good for a series, the Sanga has had 4 such series in 14! Out of these 4, one of was the recently concluded test series in England on dead tracks(I think Vijay in the first two tests - one of which was a track livelier than any the Sanga has faced - scored more than pretty much every series Sanga has played outside of Galle, Colombo, Kandy, Lahore, Faisalabad..and of course Dhaka). All of these 4 series are 2 test series or less(the Australian 'series') - so much for lack of opportunities when he hasn't been able to average 40+ in a single 3 test series outside the subcontinent ever. If anything the shorter series have helped him.
While our half Hyderabadi and half Banglorean friends might not like it and resort to ad hominem to try and make the Sanga look better, it is what it is. Just for fun, if the same criteria was applied to some other batsmen..this is what it would be :
Rahane has 2 such series out of 2 (likely to make it 3/3 in England)!
Kohli has 2 such series out of 4 (likely to become 2/5 as his current series has been poor)...
Clearly Kohli has missed a trick. After this series he should refuse to play any cricket away from the subcontinent. Just play Pakistan a lot in the UAE and about 15 straight tests against Bangladesh...maybe 5 tests against SL for good measure. He'll go down as an ATG then.
Out of current batsmen, Ab de Villiers averages 40 against and in every country (bar Bangladesh). Easily the best batsman going around, averages that without having to cherry pick matches at random and averages 50+ even when he kept presumably. Greatest batsman of the post Tendulkar/Lara/Ponting generation. Amla and Clarke are next.
While our half Hyderabadi and half Banglorean friends might not like it and resort to ad hominem to try and make the Sanga look better, it is what it is. Just for fun, if the same criteria was applied to some other batsmen..this is what it would be :
Rahane has 2 such series out of 2 (likely to make it 3/3 in England)!
Kohli has 2 such series out of 4 (likely to become 2/5 as his current series has been poor)...
Clearly Kohli has missed a trick. After this series he should refuse to play any cricket away from the subcontinent. Just play Pakistan a lot in the UAE and about 15 straight tests against Bangladesh...maybe 5 tests against SL for good measure. He'll go down as an ATG then.
Out of current batsmen, Ab de Villiers averages 40 against and in every country (bar Bangladesh). Easily the best batsman going around, averages that without having to cherry pick matches at random and averages 50+ even when he kept presumably. Greatest batsman of the post Tendulkar/Lara/Ponting generation. Amla and Clarke are next.
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G.I.Joe
International Coach
Wait, I don't get that reference...
OverratedSanity
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Honestly, this is a fair point.
Migara
International Coach
How many of them as wicket keeper? Do wicket keeper has to average 40 with the bat every series? Half truth is worse than lies.