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***Official*** India in England 2014

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The thing about India's batting lineup is that Dhoni is straight up not good enough to bat six in most conditions. This can arguably be offset somewhat by having decent batsmen at 7, 8 and 9 as well, but sometimes I'm not sure I really buy into that. If someone is bowling a really good spell that a proper batsman could see out but someone of Dhoni-away standard or worse couldn't, then it's not just a matter of adding up the averages and saying you've got it covered -- the chance of a massive collapse is greatly increased. I'm a big fan of having a proper batsman at six regardless of how strong the tail is.
Nah, it's not set in stone. It seems bad because we have Binny instead of Rohit, which is just a bad swap. Rohit will add much more to the team than Binny is, especially considering how little he bowls. A bowling all-rounder who is a good bat, like Ashwin, can add a lot to the side. A 5 man unit can be really good for an attack, especially in the last innings. I would have felt more secure about defending 318 had Ashwin been there.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
Great call from Dhoni to get Jadeja one. Missed a trick not doing it to Plunkett at the end of the 2nd day.

Can afford to be at worst 3 wickets down at close tonight if we are to have a chance.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Nah, it's not set in stone. It seems bad because we have Binny instead of Rohit, which is just a bad swap. Rohit will add much more to the team than Binny is, especially considering how little he bowls. A bowling all-rounder who is a good bat, like Ashwin, can add a lot to the side. A 5 man unit can be really good for an attack, especially in the last innings. I would have felt more secure about defending 318 had Ashwin been there.
I absolutely agree that both Rohit and Ashwin would be massive upgrades over Binny. I was merely arguing the merits of Rohit over Ashwin. Six batsmen to me is much more important then five bowlers, even when the tail is strong. If you've got a wicket keeper or a bowler good enough to bat in the top six -- as India do at home -- then it affords you the luxury of five bowlers, but I don't think India have that luxury in alien conditions right now.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
The new boys aren't doing badly. Centuries for all the new bats, no runs for Cook and Bell. Broad has bowled crap all summer but the hat trick masks that. Jimmy has bowled ok but is being worked into the ground by a poor captain and Prior has been terrible apart from one knock v SL. Also in the big moments like when the new ball was taken today the big performers are doing nothing. Broad's spell was abysmal.
Anderson and Broad have been ineffective with the new ball all summer. It cost us the match & series at Leeds, and it'll probably do the same here.

I really wouldn't be unhappy to wave goodbye to the whole class of 2010/11 and see if a new generation has the desire to actually make a go of it.
 

flibbertyjibber

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Broad's place should seriously be under thread. Taking wickets at 38 I believe this summer?
I know you don't rate him but Plunkers has comfortably outbowled him this summer.

Broad doesn't look fit. Another case of us picking him when we shouldn't.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
I know you don't rate him but Plunkers has comfortably outbowled him this summer.

Broad doesn't look fit. Another case of us picking him when we shouldn't.
Yeah I would agree, and I don't mind Plunkett if he bowls properly. If he is bowling that short pitched nonsense he is totally useless but as a pitch up bowler he has clearly improved a lot.

Woakes in for Broad (you lose nothing with the batting - gain quite a bit actually and I obviously love him and think he will be a solid test match bowler).
 

Uppercut

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I absolutely agree that both Rohit and Ashwin would be massive upgrades over Binny. I was merely arguing the merits of Rohit over Ashwin. Six batsmen to me is much more important then five bowlers, even when the tail is strong. If you've got a wicket keeper or a bowler good enough to bat in the top six -- as India do at home -- then it affords you the luxury of five bowlers, but I don't think India have that luxury in alien conditions right now.
I agree with you generally speaking but I think re: Ashwin the selectors are making the assumption that all away conditions are equal. Unless his form has fallen off terribly I'd really quite fancy him to take wickets against England in England. It's a very underrated place to bowl spin and England have a history of struggling against unorthodox spinners.
 

Cabinet96

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah I would agree, and I don't mind Plunkett if he bowls properly. If he is bowling that short pitched nonsense he is totally useless but as a pitch up bowler he has clearly improved a lot.

Woakes in for Broad (you lose nothing with the batting - gain quite a bit actually and I obviously love him and think he will be a solid test match bowler).
I probably like Woakes even more than you, but he should be pushing for a place in the top 6/7, not number 9.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
I probably like Woakes even more than you, but he should be pushing for a place in the top 6/7, not number 9.
Yeah I agree, I should have posted that he isn't batting low. If I bring in Woakes I am doing some other drastic stuff like:

Robson/Cook/Ballance/Bell/Root/Ali/Woakes/Foster/Stokes/Plunkett/Anderson

Very deep batting line up, Foster is a legitimate chance to get you a wicket or two per test and give Woakes a good run in the side.

That said I also want Buttler in the side.. So conflicted at the moment.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I agree with you generally speaking but I think re: Ashwin the selectors are making the assumption that all away conditions are equal. Unless his form has fallen off terribly I'd really quite fancy him to take wickets against England in England. It's a very underrated place to bowl spin and England have a history of struggling against unorthodox spinners.
Other than the very best, said struggles tend to happen away not on England
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Broad was great in the first test. It'd be absolute lunacy to even consider dropping him now.
This. Weird discussion IMO. He hasn't bowled well in this game but he absolutely should be playing. I know there's speculation that he's not fit, but he does he actually have a known injury at all right now?

As for Woakes -- yeah I like him too but the balance of the side at the moment essentially demands he become one of the best four fast bowlers in England to get in the side, and I find it really hard to argue that he is. Prior and Swann made getting Woakes into the side much, much easier and it still only happened once in a dead rubber.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Ballance gonna get caught on the leg side of Jadeja with a ball that kicks a bit the way he is batting.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
Right but he bowled poorly against Sri Lanka as well, its not an isolated thing. 4 tests over the summer - he is averaging 38 with the ball.

Yeah the makeup of the team isn't right for Woakes as long as Plunkett continues to do well (or better than other seamers).
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
The anti-Broad sentiment is too easy to emerge each time he has a bad game IMO. Only him and Stokes who emerged with any face from the Ashes in the winter and over a period of about 2 years has been our most reliable bowler

If he didn't have a big mouth people wouldn't get at him so much IMO
 

Uppercut

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Other than the very best, said struggles tend to happen away not on England
Which unorthodox spinners are you thinking of that were good vs. England overseas but not in England? There aren't that many in general but I remember Ajmal causing some problems during the on-the-take tour.
 

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