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***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

BackFootPunch

International 12th Man
Why they're letting him out with a boof head like Bracewell and expecting that a young player like Neesham can control him is beyond me.

Ryder has shown he can not only perform at the top level, but be a world class performer and we've really ****ed up the way we've gone about managing him. And for me having played to a professional standard in Cricket, one of the things that I have a view on is how much of a drinking culture the game has and how many true piss-heads are playing it to a high level. Trying to be a sober cricketer is impossible if you actually want to fit in at the club or district side you're in.
Completely agree with the second paragraph. Being a non-pisshead in a senior cricket team or a rep side is ridiculously rare. It's crazy how much so many of the top blokes live for getting on it.

It's a real eye opener going through the levels as a young player and seeing just how many of the guys on the rung or two above you regularly drink to a pretty excessive amount.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Roach looked dreadful yesterday, did he get any better after the first session? Probably the worst I've seen him bowl. Taylor looked like he never left Test cricket.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Roach looked dreadful yesterday, did he get any better after the first session? Probably the worst I've seen him bowl. Taylor looked like he never left Test cricket.
Roach got worse after the first session. He had one reasonable spell of reverse swing, but barely beat the bat. He was dreadful with the second new ball too.
 

Howsie

International Captain
I can already see how this series will go for you WW. The Windies will get their ass handed to them yet again and the excuses will come out. No Narine, Gayle had no match practice and was injured, Roach coming of an injury, Taylor coming of an injury etc. Always an excuse.
The guy is clearly rusty...since coming back from a six month lay if this is his FIRST first class match...so forgive me if i don't beat up on the guy just yet :D .
:D

I'm really glad Latham made a score, thought he batted really well. I like him, not as much as hendrix but he obvs has a big future. That said today showed why I'd much prefer him down the order, for a New Zealander he's a really good player of spin. He could do a lot of damage at five or six I reckon. He's not an opener I don't believe, just way too loose outside off stump, he'll get away with it in conditions like today but it'll be a problem in most places around the world.

Can we get rid of Fulton yet? Averaging 18 since 'that' match over 10 tests, waste of space.

I thought Taylor was really good, unlucky not to have Latham when he did, thought the Windies were hard done by. Roach was crap. Benn was really good early on, causing Williamson quite a few problems but he really dropped off throughout the day. Shillingford was puss.

Williamson :wub:
 

Blocky

Banned
That's NZ culture in general though. I agree it's a massive issue.

At least at the professional level rugby has somewhat dealt with the issue. Somewhat.
You can get away from it a little more I've found in other sports and society in general, I found cricket to be the most linked to alcohol of any other sport - i.e playing a Hawke Cup match and being out every night on the town with the boys. Or finishing every training session with a beer. It helps if you've got a bit more of a goal ahead of you like a Kane Williamson and a single minded determination to get there, but lets be honest, how many young cricketers are going to make the right sorts of decisions when they've got club and district pros telling them to drink up.
 

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
OK, sounds like Taylor really is back to his old self, which is good to hear. A pity about Roach.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
OK, sounds like Taylor really is back to his old self, which is good to hear. A pity about Roach.
It's kinda nice of the West Indies to slowly raise their game, giving our batsmen time to find form against better attacks stepwise.

1. Best, Gabriel and Sammy bowling pies to get McCullum back into form and boost Taylor's average.
2. Ishant Sharma, Zaheer Khan and Jadeja pies to get Williamson, Watling, Neesham and McCullum into form. Add in Mohammed Shami to slightly raise the overall difficulty from village to slightly below test standard.
3. Slow pitch and some Roach pies to give our new opener a nice score and continue Williamson's form. Add in turning wicket to again slightly raise the difficulty, but not beyond reach.
4. ???Profit???

A sorta progressive overload for the batting lineup.
 

Blocky

Banned
It's kinda nice of the West Indies to slowly raise their game, giving our batsmen time to find form against better attacks stepwise.

1. Best, Gabriel and Sammy bowling pies to get McCullum back into form and boost Taylor's average.
2. Ishant Sharma, Zaheer Khan and Jadeja pies to get Williamson, Watling, Neesham and McCullum into form. Add in Mohammed Shami to slightly raise the overall difficulty from village to slightly below test standard.
3. Slow pitch and some Roach pies to give our new opener a nice score and continue Williamson's form. Add in turning wicket to again slightly raise the difficulty, but not beyond reach.
4. ???Profit???

A sorta progressive overload for the batting lineup.
To be honest though, if you get rid of South Africa, Australia and England - no other side in world cricket really has a bowling attack that is any better. Pakistan arguably is an exception but the rest? NZ's three prong seam attack is the fourth best attack outside of the top three.

Sri Lanka, West Indies, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, India and Pakistan really don't threaten with pace. Which is why it's so hard for any of the teams outside of those top three to beat the top three, unless it's at home (in the case of India) with doctored wickets.
 

Meridio

International Regular
You can get away from it a little more I've found in other sports and society in general, I found cricket to be the most linked to alcohol of any other sport - i.e playing a Hawke Cup match and being out every night on the town with the boys. Or finishing every training session with a beer. It helps if you've got a bit more of a goal ahead of you like a Kane Williamson and a single minded determination to get there, but lets be honest, how many young cricketers are going to make the right sorts of decisions when they've got club and district pros telling them to drink up.
Yes, this. I've played a lot of different sports, and cricket is definitely the worst from that point of view. It's more common to start with, and there seems to be a slightly different attitude towards alcohol as well - it tends to be about getting people, particularly young/new guys, completely and utterly smashed; whereas with some other sports I've found it more to do with people just enjoying themselves. And yeah, the number of good young players I've seen turn into boring beer-swilling, skirt-chasing clones of each other due to the influence of older guys...it's actually quite depressing.

Anyway, good day for us. Kaneh wafg, now please go on and make it a big hundred. Pleased for Latham, though I also have strong doubts about his suitability to opening. As already pointed out, he's too loose outside off-stump; needs to be a lot more disciplined in choosing which balls to defend/leave alone.

Only managed to see the last 90 mins or so and the pitch looks very slow; anything short of a length from the seamers was barely carrying to the keeper. Think it's going to be hard work taking 20 wickets if the ball doesn't swing for us.
 

WindieWeathers

International Regular
Kiwis...i'd be careful about the ott celebrations tbh. This is afterall only the first day and if you lose three quick wickets tomorrow the picture then changes...the first day for us couldn't have gone any worse, so i'm expecting better things on the second day. What's evident though is they rushed Roach back far too soon and Shilly just doesn't have anything with this new "action"...we still have to bat of course but the way the track is looking i'm thinking a draw is on unless the track really turns a lot on days 4 and 5.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
To be honest though, if you get rid of South Africa, Australia and England - no other side in world cricket really has a bowling attack that is any better. Pakistan arguably is an exception but the rest? NZ's three prong seam attack is the fourth best attack outside of the top three.

Sri Lanka, West Indies, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, India and Pakistan really don't threaten with pace. Which is why it's so hard for any of the teams outside of those top three to beat the top three, unless it's at home (in the case of India) with doctored wickets.
Think NZ's attack is probably equal to England's.

Pakistan's is probably better than England's.
 

Blocky

Banned
Kiwis...i'd be careful about the ott celebrations tbh. This is afterall only the first day and if you lose three quick wickets tomorrow the picture then changes...the first day for us couldn't have gone any worse, so i'm expecting better things on the second day. What's evident though is they rushed Roach back far too soon and Shilly just doesn't have anything with this new "action"...we still have to bat of course but the way the track is looking i'm thinking a draw is on unless the track really turns a lot on days 4 and 5.
The stats indicate that a score above 300 will make it incredibly hard for the Windies to compete in their current situation. NZ look on track to make at least 400 even with a mid order collapse and without doubt have a much better seam attack than the Windies. The Windies will have to bat last on this wicket which will make crap spinners like Sodhi, Williamson and Craig look like superstars and ultimately, Windies didn't penetrate enough on Day 1 to make it difficult for NZ to set a big target.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I'm not celebrating yet at all.

Gayle, Bravo and Chanderpaul could pulverise our attack. It is of course very unlikely (especially on this pitch), but it could happen.
 

Blocky

Banned
Think NZ's attack is probably equal to England's.

Pakistan's is probably better than England's.
I think England still have a great seam attack, they just rely on Anderson and Broad too heavily, the rest are bit part accomplices.

Pakistan I think are more dangerous as a spin unit due to Ajmal and Rehman, their seamers are still growing into their work, Junaid Khan is a good performer, but he's not performing at the same level of stats as the top tier of seamers at the moment (i.e Broad, Anderson, Southee, Johnson, Harris, Boult, Steyn, Philander, Morkel )
 

Blocky

Banned
I'm not celebrating yet at all.

Gayle, Bravo and Chanderpaul could pulverise our attack. It is of course very unlikely (especially on this pitch), but it could happen.
Gayle needs a performance here to show that he still has it at test cricket, his recent results haven't been great. Bravo and Chanderpaul are class acts but there really isn't much behind them as we saw in NZ. They don't have Darren Sammy performing miracles in the bottom order anymore either. They look very fragile in the tail.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Kiwis...i'd be careful about the ott celebrations tbh. This is afterall only the first day and if you lose three quick wickets tomorrow the picture then changes...the first day for us couldn't have gone any worse, so i'm expecting better things on the second day. What's evident though is they rushed Roach back far too soon and Shilly just doesn't have anything with this new "action"...we still have to bat of course but the way the track is looking i'm thinking a draw is on unless the track really turns a lot on days 4 and 5.
Yeah a draw is definitely on but besides Taylor and Benn you've bowled very poorly and with Samuels and Shilly both on notice for chucking variations I don't think this attack is going to be able to trouble us too much.

That said we have Sodhi and Craig to come which is probably going to be even worse.
 

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