**Official** Indian Domestic Season 2013/14

[Shri]

In other news, ****s who would never have represented India in a big way continue to not represent India.

 

[Arjun]

There's an India A tour of Australia. Whom would you send there? Ideally, the priority should be breeding tearaway pacers, so I'd prefer they pack the team with bowlers with raw pace (Umesh, Aaron, Nechim) and have one experienced domestic seam bowler (preferably Pankaj Singh) help them out. The spin bowlers picked should be capable of batting, so five bowlers can play and that can make things easier on the bowling side. The composition of the rest of the side is anybody's choice.

Remember Sid Kaul? One of the leading wicket-takers last season? He's fallen away drastically since. I'm not surprised, since he's only medium pace and offers no threat. One more green-top bully (for now) shown up on flats. He's had a decent OD record, but so did Unadkat, and it took decent batting and absolutely unhelpful pitches to highlight his limitations.

 

[karan316]

I think we can let our fastest bowlers get a go for the A tours and pick the best out of them for the next level. But for the Indian team, we should stick to our strength, we have quality swing bowlers who are capable of performing well. We shouldn't fast track too many guys to the team just because they can bowl a few yards quicker. Yadav has been a disaster in limited formats, got a chance ahead of so many deserving players. Aaron has become wayward after his injury but looks much better. Overall, we need bowlers who can bowl with real pace, especially in test matches, but we don't need to ignore our swing bowlers and spinners, we have so many good young spinners and swing bowlers who can make an impact. And for limited overs cricket, we can look for bowlers who are good at the death since that seems to be our main issue since a really long time. Only bowler who looks a bit okayish at the death is Bhuvneshwar Kumar, rest all have looked quite bad.

 

[Shri]

What we need is someone who can bowl with good swing and control at the late 130 range with the ability to crank it up to 145+ to keep the batsmen wary. Shami can almost do that well and with experience is going to become our #1 bowler. Not a fan of picking bowlers strong on one attribute.

 

[Daemon]

Yadav and Shami the only decent ones who can average in the low 30s in Tests imo. Not quite sure what to make of the guys in the Bhuv/Praveen/Sandeep mould.

 

[hendrix]

Yadav and Shami the only decent ones who can average in the low 30s in Tests imo. Not quite sure what to make of the guys in the Bhuv/Praveen/Sandeep mould.

Zaheer Khan was an effective bowler for years. James Anderson was one of the best bowlers in the world. Trent Boult and Tim Southee have been a very potent combination for 2 years now against all teams in all conditions. All of these guys are basically pure swing bowlers that might have one or two tricks like a good bouncer or a surprise off cutter.

There's no reason not to play Bhuvneshwar when Zak and Ishant are getting gigs. Especially Zaheer Khan. I've said it before, but at best Zaheer is the same bowler as Bhuvi except 10 years older, a terrible fielder, and not even trying with the bat anymore.

Shami is an exceptionally good bowler, IMO. He's 137-145, gets a little bit of seam and swing, and bowls an excellent line and length. You're not losing anything if you pair him with a pure swing bowler.

 

[hendrix]

FWIW, my first two Indian picks in tests would be:
1. Shami
2. Bhuvneshwar

After that I don't care who it is as long as it's not Ishant. I'd want to try Pandey or Pankaj Singh as third seamer.

 

[Daemon]

I don't know whether Bhuv reverses the ball which is my main issue, because if he doesn't then he becomes ineffective when the ball stops swinging. Yadav does and he's a solid bowler and a better overall package imo.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I don't know whether Bhuv reverses the ball which is my main issue, because if he doesn't then he becomes ineffective when the ball stops swinging. Yadav does and he's a solid bowler and a better overall package imo.

Bhuvi doesn't reverse it at all... At least I've never seen him do it. But that's OK. When the new ball is swinging , he's extremely good and in places like England where there will be swing on offer at some point, he can absolutely be an excellent option. Even in the SC I think he can do a decent job. When there's some swing, he invariably gets a couple of top order wickets and when the swing goes, he's absolutely toothless. He showed both when Australia toured India last year. It's just a case of knowing what his strengths are and using him properly (which admittedly, I'm not sure Dhoni can do). You don't need ALL your bowlers to be good with the old ball. Shami and Yadav with a spinner can handle those overs well enough on their own without Bhuvi.

Yadav has pace, gets done swing, gets wickets and should be in the side. As should Pankaj but that won't happen ever.

Imo, the bowling lineup overseas should be Shami, Bhuvi, Yadav, Ashwin

 

[hendrix]

Shami, Bhuvi, Yadav, Ojha/Mishra, IMO.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ashwin's batting too good to overlook imo. And anyway, he needs more opportunities. Otherwise he won't improve, which I'm pretty confident, given time, he will.

Neither of Ojha, Ashwin and Mishra are really good enough to have an impact wicket taking wise on the coming tours, it's just a case of picking one and seeing whether in the long term he'll improve and be a viable wicket taking option, like Kumble did

 

[hendrix]

Ashwin's batting too good to overlook imo. And anyway, he needs more opportunities. Otherwise he won't improve, which I'm pretty confident, given time, he will.

Neither of Ojha, Ashwin and Mishra are really good enough to have an impact wicket taking wise on the coming tours, it's just a case of picking one and seeing whether in the long term he'll improve and be a viable wicket taking option, like Kumble did

Ashwin's batting doesn't come into it unless he's playing as an all rounder. Ditto Jadeja.

You're probably right that he needs opportunities, I just don't think he's very good. Especially with all the mucking around with his action.

On whether they'll have an impact: Vettori ran through England a couple of times when he last toured there. I think Ojha or Mishra could do the same.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah, Ashwin definitely as an all rounder. With Dhoni sure to embarrass himself in England again, it won't hurt to have Ashwin in there.

Ojha I think could do well with the ball tbh but it'd screw up the batting order. Tail essentially starts with Dhoni, maybe even Rohit if he doesn't improve. Mishra had his chance on our last tour to India and got spanked for 0-140 or something, and chokes when attacked, so he's not in the picture for me

 

[ramkumar_gr]

Ashwin's batting doesn't come into it unless he's playing as an all rounder. Ditto Jadeja.

You're probably right that he needs opportunities, I just don't think he's very good. Especially with all the mucking around with his action.

On whether they'll have an impact: Vettori ran through England a couple of times when he last toured there. I think Ojha or Mishra could do the same.

Please don't talk Ashwin's batting and Jadeja's batting in the same vein. Ashwin is 100 times better than Jadeja and has the capability to play as a pure batsman. Definitely better than Rohit Sharma.

On the bowling front, Ashwin is still our no.1 spinner and no.2 is a toss up between Mishra and Ohja. But given how Mishra is doing recently I would pick him ahead of Ohja.

 

[ramkumar_gr]

Ashwin's batting too good to overlook imo. And anyway, he needs more opportunities. Otherwise he won't improve, which I'm pretty confident, given time, he will.

Neither of Ojha, Ashwin and Mishra are really good enough to have an impact wicket taking wise on the coming tours, it's just a case of picking one and seeing whether in the long term he'll improve and be a viable wicket taking option, like Kumble did

Kumble out of some 25 overseas tours bowled well only in a couple of them. Let us agree that no spinner in the last 20-25 years have been able to make an impact overseas. within the available options ruling out one dimensional cricketers like Ohja and Mishra, Ashwin is the best option.

 

[hendrix]

Yeah, Ashwin definitely as an all rounder. With Dhoni sure to embarrass himself in England again, it won't hurt to have Ashwin in there.

Ojha I think could do well with the ball tbh but it'd screw up the batting order. Tail essentially starts with Dhoni, maybe even Rohit if he doesn't improve. Mishra had his chance on our last tour to India and got spanked for 0-140 or something, and chokes when attacked, so he's not in the picture for me

There is not a team in the world that has the batting potential of India's right now. Dhawan, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rohit, Rahane: every single one of them has already scored runs overseas and more than looks the part at test level. And yet despite this, India is the only team in the world that gives more than a sceric of thought to the batting capabilities of their spinner. Who at the absolute highest will be batting number 8. Behind what's probably already the best batting lineup in the world, and is only going to get better.

When I say "playing as an all rounder" I mean batting at 6 i.e. at the expense of a batsman, not a bowler.

It's universally acknowledged that taking twenty wickets is India's problem. They failed to do it against South Africa and they failed to do it against NZ.

I think it's time for India to completely disregard the batting abilities of its 4th bowler.

 

[Arjun]

Dhoni has under-achieved as a batsman in Tests. He wasn't that great earlier, and when he became captain, he just kept hiding at seven, instead of setting his batting right and making a difference to the side. Now, he wants to give up one form of the game to prolong his career. He can vacate his place in the Test side, with Naman Ojha, Mahesh Rawat and Wrid Saha in the running, each of them having two great domestic seasons- each has over 1300 runs.

For the A team tour, the faster bowlers can play together, with a senior like Pankaj Singh as their lead. Umesh, Aaron, Nechim and possibly Pawan Suyal (not sure about Rahul Shukla) can benefit a lot from this tour. For the England series, I'd prefer to have the in-form bowlers from the scene, such as Pandey and Rishi Dhawan, both of whom have had two great seasons back to back. Even Pankaj has had two great seasons, but he may be needed in Australia more than in England, but it can help a lot if he plays Tests and ODIs for India. Not sure about Sandeep Sharma- maybe England is the place for him, but he's still too raw for Tests. Bhuvneshwar Kumar makes more sense as one of five bowlers than four- not a complete strike bowler by any means, but a decent batsman lower down. We may be looking at a four-seam-one-spin combination for some time.

Robin Uthappa should be opening the innings for India in ODIs and T20Is, for now.

 

[Daemon]

Nechim and Suyal are rank ordinary imo. 140ks straight up and down troubles no international quality batsmen.


Agree with Hendrix that we should pick our best bowlers regardless of batting, but I think Ashwin has it in him to perform overseas with the ball so I wouldn't mind seeing him start in England.

 

[OverratedSanity]

There is not a team in the world that has the batting potential of India's right now. Dhawan, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rohit, Rahane: every single one of them has already scored runs overseas and more than looks the part at test level. And yet despite this, India is the only team in the world that gives more than a sceric of thought to the batting capabilities of their spinner. Who at the absolute highest will be batting number 8. Behind what's probably already the best batting lineup in the world, and is only going to get better.

When I say "playing as an all rounder" I mean batting at 6 i.e. at the expense of a batsman, not a bowler.

It's universally acknowledged that taking twenty wickets is India's problem. They failed to do it against South Africa and they failed to do it against NZ.

I think it's time for India to completely disregard the batting abilities of its 4th bowler.

Rohit has scored runs overseas?

But fair enough. I do see where you're coming from and agree with most of it. Thing is, while I do agree Ojha is probably a slightly better prospect that Ashwin overseas I don't get why you're so confident hell do much better than Ashwin. Ashwin, so far has toured the toughest country of all for a finger spinner , in Australia and got one match in South Africa after which he was dropped from the second one, which offered turn. He really just has not had enough chances to outright say there's no way he'll do well overseas. I say give Ashwin a fair go in England at least for a couple of matches and if he does FA, bring in Ojha.

 

[karan316]

What we need is someone who can bowl with good swing and control at the late 130 range with the ability to crank it up to 145+ to keep the batsmen wary. Shami can almost do that well and with experience is going to become our #1 bowler. Not a fan of picking bowlers strong on one attribute.

Completely agree with you. But bowlers shouldn't be picked just on the basis of their pace. Whether the selectors pick genuine fast bowlers or swing bowlers, they should be ready for international cricket. Both Yadav and Aaron were picked a bit too early. Aaron has lacked control after he was injured, he needs a bit of time. Yadav looks all right for tests, but for the shorter formats, there are much better options. And its a very wrong belief that on overseas tours, only genuine pace bowlers can trouble the batsmen. In fact the English, South African and Australian batsmen won't find it too difficult to deal with quick bowlers unless they are up to the mark. They face some good pace bowlers even at the domestic level in difficult conditions, so don't think they can be beaten with only raw pace. Like someone had said before, Zaheer has been quite successful for India, not the quickest Indian bowler.

And our swing bowlers are ignored at times, Praveen Kumar's performance is a proof that even a medium pace swing bowler can trouble the batsmen if he's good enough. There were a few eyebrows raised when he was picked, but he did exceptionally well in whatever chances he got. He did well even on the WI tracks which don't assist pace bowlers.