***Official*** New Zealand in the West Indies 2014

[Hurricane]

Unless I have missed it we don't have a thread on this - and just delete this if we do.

West Indies Selection v BLACKCAPS
Thursday, 29 May 2014 –TBA
Warm-up match – BLACKCAPS tour of West Indies

West Indies Selection v BLACKCAPS
Monday, 2 June 2014 –TBA
Warm-up match – BLACKCAPS tour of West Indies

West Indies v BLACKCAPS
Sunday, 8 June 2014 –Sabina Park, Kingston
Test Match – BLACKCAPS tour of West Indies

West Indies v BLACKCAPS
Monday, 16 June 2014 –Queens Park Oval, Port of Spain, Trinidad
Test Match – BLACKCAPS tour of West Indies

West Indies v BLACKCAPS
Thursday, 26 June 2014 –National Stadium, Providence, Guyana
Test Match – BLACKCAPS tour of West Indies

West Indies v BLACKCAPS
Saturday, 5 July 2014 –Windsor Park, Roseau, Dominica
International Twenty-20 – BLACKCAPS tour of West Indies

West Indies v BLACKCAPS
Sunday, 6 July 2014 –Windsor Park, Roseau, Dominica
International Twenty-20 – BLACKCAPS tour of West Indies

BLACKCAPS Test squad for tour to the West Indies
Brendon McCullum (c) - Otago Volts
Corey Anderson - Northern Knights
Trent Boult - Northern Knights
Mark Craig - Otago Volts
Peter Fulton - Canterbury Wizards
Tom Latham - Canterbury Wizards
James Neesham - Otago Volts
Luke Ronchi – Wellington Firebirds
Hamish Rutherford - Otago Volts
Ish Sodhi - Northern Knights
Tim Southee - Northern Knights
Ross Taylor - Central Stags
Neil Wagner - Otago Volts
BJ Watling - Northern Knights
Kane Williamson - Northern Knights

Make your predictions - I think NZ will hard pressed to win this series unless Latham is a revelation as opener (and is actually picked). Narine to be a handful.
Windies to win 2-0. Realise significant discussion has already taken place in the NZ off season thread but this tour was always going to get its own thread. Mods to make this **official** in due course

 

[hendrix]

it's like 2 months away.

But yeah, I can't wait either. I think our fortunes in this series depend on Southee and Boult retaining their form over the last 2 years. If they do, even in difficult bowling conditions, I think they'll be too much for the Windies.

 

[Flem274*]

We did manage to pull our socks up and hold Sri Lanka to a drawn series so there's a chance but our overseas form is woeful, Colombo and Hobart aside.

This is a series NZ should really be targeting to win if they want to show they're a contender rather than the home town heroes they've been since England toured two summers ago but considering we're trying our best to commit hari kari by making noises about two spinners I'm not optimistic we will be able to control their batsmen when Southee and Boult aren't bowling.

 

[Hurricane]

If we win an away series against any nation barring Zimbos, ( Bangers at home are tough (don't laugh at that fans from the top 3 teams until you play them yourselves on their home turf)) then that would be a massive accomplishment.

I suspect a couple of things will be against us apart from just the pitches
a) Motivation - I reckon the Windies will be targeting pay back for their loss to us.
b) Better selection policy - surely they will pick a better bowling attack this time around.

 

[Beamer]

It's interesting how cricket works, I think New Zealand are in the same position that we were before the disastrous dual tour of India and New Zealand. We had just won 6 tests in a row, 4 at home in a comprehensive fashion. West Indies fans were all saying 'right, we've proven we are good in our own conditions, now we need to win in NZ to show we really are improving and ready to move up the test rankings'.

Of course, we all know how that went, we were awful and got thrashed non-stop for 2 months in a row by a resurgent New Zealand, failing miserably against the moving ball and bowling a pile of dross.. Now it's New Zeeland's turn to prove they can win away from home when the ball is turning and only swinging for a few overs with the new ball (maybe for longer at the QPO). How they play our high quality spin attack will be very interesting.

As Hurricane said, it does depend on the side West Indies select too. If they select the same seam attack I will back NZ to win 3-0. If they select some decent seamers to complement our spinners I think we might well win. I'm very much looking forward to it anyway.

 

[NZTailender]

Are you kidding? We have no chance. West Indies are far and away the best home team, we were lucky we beat them at home as they had at least 3 all time greats not in the side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Beamer]

Are you kidding? We have no chance. West Indies are far and away the best home team, we were lucky we beat them at home as they had at least 3 all time greats not in the side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Silly, silly post. We were only missing Gayle and Roach through injury, a couple of others were self inflicted by our selectors, hence our irritation. The margin of victory was such that it probably would not have made a difference but I really don't see the problem with us pointing it out. If the shoe were on the other foot I would not be so defensive as you.

Hopefully the series itself will provoke a higher standard of discussion. I'm looking forward to seeing a few new players and hopefully a decent standard of cricket from both sides.

 

[Flem274*]

Are you kidding? We have no chance. West Indies are far and away the best home team, we were lucky we beat them at home as they had at least 3 all time greats not in the side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wat

WW is gone for now. leave it be.

 

[Flem274*]

anyway what will be interesting is the pitches.

the West Indies backed their spinners on a turner at hamilton and it didn't pay off, but at home you would think they're more confident. the only problem is they need to be careful not to be excessive with their pitches or they risk putting out something even sodhi is dangerous on, and imo KW is the dark horse troll bowler who could be accurate enough to put the ball in the right place on a turner and be more of a threat than NZs specialist spinners.

the other problem with preparing spinning pitches is the windies have to drop all their bang it in types and slow mediums and bring in pitch it up quicks like roach. best, sammy, gabriel et al will just sit up nicely for the batsmen.

I would actually hedge my bets a bit and prepare a pitch which takes turn but not ridiculous amounts and play 3 quicks and Narine. That way you get to negate the NZ seamers a bit, see how the NZ batsmen cope on foreign spin friendly pitches (worse than at Hamilton I expect) and you give Narine an advantage Sodhi isn't good enough to use.

 

[Hurricane]

anyway what will be interesting is the pitches.

the West Indies backed their spinners on a turner at hamilton and it didn't pay off, but at home you would think they're more confident. the only problem is they need to be careful not to be excessive with their pitches or they risk putting out something even sodhi is dangerous on, and imo KW is the dark horse troll bowler who could be accurate enough to put the ball in the right place on a turner and be more of a threat than NZs specialist spinners.

the other problem with preparing spinning pitches is the windies have to drop all their bang it in types and slow mediums and bring in pitch it up quicks like roach. best, sammy, gabriel et al will just sit up nicely for the batsmen.

I would actually hedge my bets a bit and prepare a pitch which takes turn but not ridiculous amounts and play 3 quicks and Narine. That way you get to negate the NZ seamers a bit, see how the NZ batsmen cope on foreign spin friendly pitches (worse than at Hamilton I expect) and you give Narine an advantage Sodhi isn't good enough to use.

I look forward to your posts and you always deliver. I give this post a 9/10. My eyebrow raised at one point... I really don't think negating sodhi will cross their mind due to his immaturity as a bowler. At best he will get 3fer on a bunsen due to his lack of control and the fact he turns his googly too much and thus this takes out lbw as a mode of dismissal.

 

[Prince EWS]

There definitely lies an optimal point somewhere between preparing a pitch that they should pick three quicks on and preparing a pitch that Sodhi will be a threat on. They'll definitely be picking two spinners and so they should.

 

[NZTailender]

Silly, silly post. We were only missing Gayle and Roach through injury, a couple of others were self inflicted by our selectors, hence our irritation. The margin of victory was such that it probably would not have made a difference but I really don't see the problem with us pointing it out. If the shoe were on the other foot I would not be so defensive as you.

Hopefully the series itself will provoke a higher standard of discussion. I'm looking forward to seeing a few new players and hopefully a decent standard of cricket from both sides.

Uh, that post wasn't serious. I actually think the series will be very close, with the WIndies perhaps having the upper hand with returned players & home ground advantages. I wanted to get the hyperbole in before WW, but...

wat

WW is gone for now. leave it be.

...I didn't know this? Where's he gone?

 

[Slifer]

I don't know about the rest of the make up of the WI team, but I would love to see the following bowling lineup: Holder, Roach, Narine and Cummings/Rampaul.

 

[hendrix]

There definitely lies an optimal point somewhere between preparing a pitch that they should pick three quicks on and preparing a pitch that Sodhi will be a threat on. They'll definitely be picking two spinners and so they should.

Yeah, they could go over-the-top like NZ did with the Basin pitch against India where the match would have been decided by the toss were it not for an ATG innings.

If they make a spinning track and NZ makes 300 or so first up they could be in trouble. Sodhi isn't that bad, and it's not like Bravo is Lara just yet.

 

[Kippax]

Nikita Miller does have 290 wickets for Jamaica at 15 ftr.

It's unfortunate for Hesson that they tend to water down this magical paradise of the nothing-special spinner, so the rights buyers can get their 15 days of content.

 

[Maximas]

I don't know about the rest of the make up of the WI team, but I would love to see the following bowling lineup: Holder, Roach, Narine and Cummings/Rampaul.

Keep dreaming

Another test for the NZ pace attack, but they have shown themselves in the past (notably in India and SL) to be effective in all conditions, Southee has been particularly impressive in this regard. With KW in the team and their pace attack I don't see the lack of quality spinner to be as big an issue as it would be for other teams, although it will still hurt them. The WI really need to pull themselves together, Powell and Bravo have to start delivering more consistently, and the selectors need to put a decent attack on the park, will be an interesting series

 

[Beamer]

Uh, that post wasn't serious. I actually think the series will be very close, with the WIndies perhaps having the upper hand with returned players & home ground advantages. I wanted to get the hyperbole in before WW, but...



...I didn't know this? Where's he gone?

Ok mate, sorry I bit too early. I shall only focus on this series now. I think it will be very close as well. Our batting confidence being at an all-time low at the moment might be evened out by New Zealand's struggle against the spinning ball.

I would sacrifice a series loss for a decent performance from one or two of our young batsmen and a promising start for a young fast bowler. What I don't want is to see us keep Sammy as Test captain, pick the same quicks who don't move the ball at all and yet somehow manage to win due to Narine and Shillingford/Permaul/Miller/Benn/Bishoo bowling NZ out on raging turners. That could result in short term success but no long term gain and we'd just get smashed the next time we tour anywhere that isn't Bangladesh.

 

[Beamer]

The West Indies selectors have a very difficult task ahead of this series. They've been rightly lambasted by all comers for showing an incredible lack of imagination on our tours to India and NZ and picking a seam attack that most of our domestic teams can better.

However, none of the fringe players have really had break out seasons that demand selection, particularly in terms of the batting. There are still the semis and the final to play so there may yet be some selection grabbing performances but we will just have to wait and see. The following batting spots should be available:

Opening batsman to partner Chris Gayle

- Kieron Powell had a very disappointing 2013. He looks the goods but always finds ways of getting out. This domestic season he scored 414 runs at 41.94 but scored no hundreds. They have placed a lot of faith in him and will no doubt continue to do so but I think they may well drop him temporarily to send the message that he needs to improve.

- Kraigg Brathwaite has scored heavily for 2 years now to get back in contention. The concentration is there in spades, but he just couldn't rotate the strike enough for test level. So far this season he has scored his runs at a faster strikerate, particularly in the last few matches and he has so far scored 446 runs at 44.60. Again though, no hundreds.

Those are the only real contenders for that slot. Honourable mentions go to Shacoya Thomas who topped the run scoring charts (averaging 45) and deserves A team selection, as well as young Evin Lewis who has averaged 41 in his debut FC season.

Middle order batsmen (numbers 3 or 6)

I'm making the dangerous assumption (our selectors move in mysterious ways) that Darren Bravo, Chanderpaul and Samuels are shoe ins (though Samuels better pick his form up soon). That leaves one batting slot open for someone that can either bat at number 3 to protect our strong(ish) middle order or at 6 to stabilise the lower order. The candidates are:

- Kirk Edwards is my favourite for this position by quite some distance. He performed ok in New Zealand in conditions he had previously struggled in and generally looked the part again. He has been injured so hasn't played as many games as I'd like but when he has he's scored 299 runs at 74 with two hundreds. He'd be fine at either 3 or 6 too and makes the middle order look so much stronger .

- Leon Johnson has underperformed for most of his career but over the last two years has really come to the fore. He's a very talented batsman who scored 295 runs at 59. He was injured and then his side got knocked out at the group stages so he didn't get much of a knock. He'd be a decent choice as the reserve batsman if needed, but I also think he should be a shoe-in as captain of the A-team. He is certainly knocking on the door.

- Dwayne Bravo has not played the FC season but his batting form in OID's and T20s has been superb and he has really looked the part. He must be a serious option to return to the side and help balance out the bowling attack.

Jason Mohammed scored 444 runs at 40 this year which placed him near the top of the charts. He scores heavily on slow turning tracks but has been found wanting against pace and the moving ball whenever he plays Barbados so I would give him an A team spot at best. One of the highlights of the season for me has been the performance of young Sunil Ambris for the Windward Islands in his first season at this level. He is a tall, elegant batsman who has looked the part against the better attacks in the region. He is currently at the crease in the semi-final against T & T. So far this season he has averaged 40 and I'd definitely give him an A team slot. It's too soon to consider him for the senior team though. I was hoping Jonathan Carter would have a breakthrough season and demand selection as he can also bowl excellent medium pace but it just hasn't happened for him and he keeps getting out in very unlucky ways. I hope he comes back with a bang next season. Narsingh Deonarine appears to be finished unfortunately, he is now even struggling at FC level (95 runs at 11 this season).

In summary, I'd go with Kraigg Braithwaite to open with Chris Gayle and Kirk Edwards for the batting slot. Dwayne Bravo would be in my squad. I'll tackle the bowling options after the semi-finals have finished.

 

[Prince EWS]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Edwards forced to open again, leaving something like:

Gayle
Edwards
Bravo
Samuels
Chanderpaul
Bravo

I think it'd be pretty rough on Edwards who has earned a go somewhere in the middle order, but he and Bravo are definitely the best two players left to fill the two spots available, particularly given two spinners will probably be selected and Ramdin has improved with the bat a lot, and that'd be a way of getting them both in there.

 

[Beamer]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Edwards forced to open again,

I think it'd be pretty rough on Edwards who has earned a go somewhere in the middle order, but he and Bravo are definitely the best two players left to fill the two spots available, particularly given two spinners will probably be selected and Ramdin has improved with the bat a lot, and that'd be a way of getting them both in there.

I agree that would be the common sense short-term move but I really hope they are thinking more seriously about our future than that. Gayle isn't exactly the most consistent of openers himself and we desperately need to develop some decent opening options. Edwards could do the role reasonably but he is a middle order batsman by trade and I think he will offer more value to us long term at number 3 and below.

Having said that, it is a way of getting the extra bowling into the side so I won't be surprised if they go down that route. I personally prefer:

Gayle
Braithwaite
Edwards
Bravo
Shiv
Samuels
Ramdin (c)
TBD (seamer who can bat)
TBD (spinner)
Narine
TBD (seamer)

Reserves - Dwayne Bravo, Seamer

Notes:

- If Roach is fit he walks into the number 11 role
- If Shillingford is ok with his new action and they are comfortable with it (I seriously doubt it) he walks in at number 9.
- I want Samuels to move back to number 6 where he scored all those runs in 2012. He also bats well with Shiv and is excellent with the tail.