sledger
Spanish_Vicente
So?
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*Official* English Football Season 2013-14
- Thread starter GIMH
- Start date
NUFAN
Y no Afghanistan flag
I've forgotten my point. It was something about Gerrard..
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Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
Agreed.
Ramsey's missed most of the season, definitely shouldn't win IMO. Hazard and Sturridge from those there but IMO I'd rather it was one of Shaw, Barkley or Sterling. IMO the age limit is a bit of joke in the YPOTY award (too high). Coutinho or Henderson could've made it too.
Suarez is a mile ahead for the senior prize.
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Tom Halsey
International Coach
Haha, you could get about 15 quotes saying they are the best about any of the list of midfielders I posted a couple of days ago. When you said you would have Gerrard above all but three of them I didn't bother to dispute it (although I don't agree) because I remembered you were a fan of this kind of argument, which in any case is logically fallacious. Zidane being good at football does not prove that what he says about it is right, and in any case Zidane has at different times nominated various different "best midfielders in the world" or similar, so I wouldn't pay much attention.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
The reason I posted it was because you had mentioned that you disliked the English press talking Gerrard up as if he was the best midfielder of his generation when, lo and behold, one of the greatest players of all time - not a member of the English press - just re-emphasised that yesterday. And, frankly, there are many other non-English figures in football one can cite in his favour; so the characterisation of his standing in the game being inflated because of biased countrymen doesn't really wash.
And using the opinions of ex-pros to emphasise a point is logically fallacious? Not really. If all one did was use those opinions then I could understand but I don't do that so I'm not sure what you mean. Stats, trophies, performances, the opinions of contemporaries or experts, etc, all have validity.
It's also doubly funny because of how often United fans cite Zidane's comments on Scholes themselves. Watch this space because when Gerrard retires it's only going to get worse.
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Tom Halsey
International Coach
Do you really think if Zidane had given this interview to, for argument's sake, the Italian press instead of the Mail, he would have said the same? Suppose some Italian journo said wouldn't it be nice and fitting if Pirlo could finish his international career by winning the World Cup, do you think Zidane would have said actually I would prefer if Gerrard had won it and actually both Scholes and Gerrard are better than Pirlo? These quotes are just exactly what the journalist in question wants to hear and that is down to the British press (other countries press are probably just as bad) and also makes what Zidane says fairly meaningless.The reason I posted it was because you had mentioned that you disliked the English press talking Gerrard up as if he was the best midfielder of his generation when, lo and behold, one of the greatest players of all time - not a member of the English press - just re-emphasised that yesterday. And, frankly, there are many other non-English figures in football one can cite in his favour; so the characterisation of his standing in the game being inflated because of biased countrymen doesn't really wash.
And using the opinions of ex-pros to emphasise a point is logically fallacious? Not really. If all one did was use those opinions then I could understand but I don't do that so I'm not sure what you mean. Stats, trophies, performances, the opinions of contemporaries or experts, etc, all have validity.
It's also doubly funny because of how often United fans cite Zidane's comments on Scholes themselves. Watch this space because when Gerrard retires it's only going to get worse.
I mean, when you look at football in the last twenty years, all the great club and national sides and what they have won, all the great players, to say that the best two midfielders in the last twenty years were English is such a ridiculous statement that I don't really know what to say.
And yes when United fans cite Zidane's comments they are also wrong.
Tom Halsey
International Coach
Agree with this. How underrepresented defenders are in these sorts of awards always annoys me. Lallana has had a good season obviously but he really shouldn't be nominated for this IMO, there have been lots of players who have been better in my view.
EDIT: And less glamorous midfielders are always underrepresented also. Fernandinho (for example) has done his job just as well as Yaya has done his this season IMO, but his job grabs a lot less headlines so Yaya gets nominated.
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superkingdave
Hall of Fame Member
1-0 up time but Carlisle and Crew both winning so would still only be 4 points above the drop.
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I know that we're crap, and that the last thing that Madejski would want is the club back in the Premiership, but I'm still pissed off 
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
I think that's definitely true in a lot of cases, but I think Zidane's statements are unqualified in this regard: he said they are THE best midfielders of the last 20 years - not one of. And in context of his previous comments it does seem he rates them.
And it's not just Zidane...if you really care enough or if you follow it enough you'll see a certain pattern. Gerrard himself is a PFA young and senior award winner and should have had another if not for Giggs' lifetime achievement award. He's going to get into another PFA team of the year which will make it his 8th (in comparison Scholes has only gotten in 3 times in his career) and is the record in the premier league era despite not ever being in a title winning team. So ultimately, if it quacks, waddles, etc, like a duck...then they're highly rated by their peers. If he's not the best midfielder of his generation, then he's in the convo.
Of course, such comments are just additional information one can use to gauge players. There's only so much stats or trophies can tell you about a player. And despite it all, you can still disagree, there's no right or wrong IMO, it just depends how you rate players and what you deem is important in a footballer. At the time same, I don't get peoples' indignation or flat our refusal to accept that some players are highly rated. I remember getting into a discussion with Michael Cox (of Zonalmarking site) about Gerrard and he was in denial about how Rafa rated Gerrard as a central or holding midfielder and he just wouldn't change the script no matter what was put forth to him. Now, even he can't be that obtuse.
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Even paragraph after paragraph of Ikki bull**** can't ruin this day.
I have always thought cricket is the greatest game but no sport can match the emotions that football can bring. I know every set of fans think they are special but we deserved that after last year.
I have always thought cricket is the greatest game but no sport can match the emotions that football can bring. I know every set of fans think they are special but we deserved that after last year.
