The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Dan]

Funniest thing is that theres probably quite a few on here who have played at a higher level than him.

Nah mate, JimmyGS has nothing on this guy.

EDIT: At thesaurus use, that is.

 

[the big bambino]

Your comment was to deride Amre's ATG skills by pointing out how he failed against a fairly ordinary attack, while providing an example of Hutton having a similar experience. Ie, you brought in a player of ATG credentials on the basis of his ATG record. Since you are not old enough to've seen Hutton extensively, you obviously cannot be considered credible if you strictly brought up Hutton on the basis of his skills.
I pointed it out to you, with example such as Kallis- that early career/short career means nothing really in evaluating a player because they could've been just the same, so much greater or worse.

You didnt misquote me, your conjencture of Hutton's skills as a counterpoint to my assessment of Amre was in error.

I mentioned Hutton bcos that is an assessment of a man who actually knows his cricket. So yeah the counterpoint was with you, not Amre. Your assessment of whom is further contradicted by comparing it with his actual record.

 

[Red]

There probably are a few FC players here, though quite a few would not be what I'd expect of this site. But it is possible, i suppose.

So, what have you played?

 

[Red]

Favourite Australians.

- David Boon
- Mark Taylor
- Neil Harvey
- Mark Waugh
- Keith Miller
- Allan Border
- Richie Benaud
- Allan Davidson
- Jack Blackham
- Ray Linwdall
- CTB Turner

12th- Bruce Reid

 

[Muloghonto]

I mentioned Hutton bcos that is an assessment of a man who actually knows his cricket. So yeah the counterpoint was with you, not Amre. Your assessment of whom is further contradicted by comparing it with his actual record.

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Dan]

Favourite Australians.

- David Boon
- Mark Taylor
- Neil Harvey
- Mark Waugh
- Keith Miller
- Allan Border
- Richie Benaud
- Allan Davidson
- Jack Blackham
- Ray Linwdall
- CTB Turner

12th- Bruce Reid

1. Michael Slater (?)
2. Archie Jackson
3. Charles Macartney
4. Steven Smith*
5. Keith Miller
6. Steve Waugh
7. Adam Gilchrist+
8. Richie Benaud
9. Alan Davidson
10. Ray Lindwall
11. Clarrie Grimmett

12th - Glenn McGrath

 

[harsh.ag]

It is intrinsically facile to compare a well established player with one who didn't play much. Having ATG accomplishments and having ATG skills are two different things, the latter i do not expect many on this forum to be able to identify simply because most here lack any real cricketing experience. That being said, the former is a product of the latter, compounded with opportunity, time and motivation.

How does someone like a Shiv Chanderpaul fit in here, according to the experienced head of yours.

 

[the big bambino]

That doesn't make any sense.

Let me clarify: Hutton knows what he's talking about. You don't.

Clear now?

 

[Red]

1. Michael Slater (?)
2. Archie Jackson
3. Charles Macartney
4. Steven Smith*
5. Keith Miller
6. Steve Waugh
7. Adam Gilchrist+
8. Richie Benaud
9. Alan Davidson
10. Ray Lindwall
11. Clarrie Grimmett

12th - Glenn McGrath

Forgot Jackson. And Trumper too.

 

[Muloghonto]

How does someone like a Shiv Chanderpaul fit in here, according to the experienced head of yours.

Shiv, by no stretch of imagination, is a 'talented batsman'. He is limited in his strokeplay and his range of strokes is more befitting a journeyman first class performer. However, like Steve Waugh, Shiv is a testament to the fact that talent is not end all, be all 'must have' ingredient to success, a limited person can be just as successful as a limitless one, provided he/she knows their limitations and stays within it. Shiv is a perfect example of a batsman who knows his limitations and plays well within them. Coupled with a steely and unruffled mind ( Shiv is one of the few batsmen who does not mind being bogged down. He can play 40 straight dot balls and not exude the feeling of edgyness to score. He will score when he gets a ball to score, even if that ball comes next year), he is all about application over talent.

 

[Muloghonto]

Let me clarify: Hutton knows what he's talking about. You don't.

Clear now?

Are you Hutton's ghost ? If not, Hutton is not the one speaking here, its *YOU* who is presenting anecdotes about Hutton as a counterpoint to me presenting anecdotes from Amre.
If Hutton is more qualified to talk on said matters than me (which he was), so is Amre in comparison to you.

 

[Coronis]

Favourite Aussies at the moment

Warner
Ponsford
Ponting
Chappell*
Harvey
Miller
Gilchrist+
Davidson
Lindwall
Grimmett
O'Reilly

 

[watson]

Favourite Ashes teams that I'd love to see in action;

01. Warren Bardsley
02. Victor Trumper
03. Donald Bradman
04. Neil Harvey
05. Stan McCabe
06. Keith Miller
07. Monty Noble
08. Richie Benaud*
09. Alan Davidson
10. Bert Oldfield+
11. Dennis Lillee

01. Jack Hobbs
02. Herbert Sutcliffe
03. Ted Dexter
04. Peter May
05. Denis Compton
06. Ian Botham
07. Alan Knott
08. Wilfred Rhodes
09. John Snow
10. Fred Trueman
11. Sydney Barnes

 

[Red]

Shiv, by no stretch of imagination, is a 'talented batsman'. He is limited in his strokeplay and his range of strokes is more befitting a journeyman first class performer. However, like Steve Waugh, Shiv is a testament to the fact that talent is not end all, be all 'must have' ingredient to success, a limited person can be just as successful as a limitless one, provided he/she knows their limitations and stays within it. Shiv is a perfect example of a batsman who knows his limitations and plays well within them. Coupled with a steely and unruffled mind ( Shiv is one of the few batsmen who does not mind being bogged down. He can play 40 straight dot balls and not exude the feeling of edgyness to score. He will score when he gets a ball to score, even if that ball comes next year), he is all about application over talent.

Ahh, you're one of those guys who thinks Steve Waugh didn't have natural talent.

 

[Red]

Revised….

- Victor Trumper
- Mark Taylor *
- Neil Harvey
- Mark Waugh
- Keith Miller
- Allan Border
- Allan Davidson
- Jack Blackham +
- Ray Linwdall
- CTB Turner
- Arthur Mailey

- Bruce Reid
- Archie Jackson

 

[watson]

I reckon that Gil Langley deserves a run in one of our ATG drafts as he sounds like a dude;

Even when wearing flannels, Gil Langley seemed to have stepped straight from a council dustcart, but he missed little behind the stumps after Don Tallon's withdrawal from Australia's 1949-50 tour of South Africa gave him a first overseas trip. Langley's rumpled kit, shambling gait and razor-edged appeal endeared him to team-mates, while his nine catches in the 1956 Lord's Test stood as an Australian record for almost 44 years. He actually began his first-class career as a batsman, and picked up some useful tailend runs in Tests, including a half-century at Bridgetown in April 1955. An outstanding Australian Rules footballer who represented his state, he was the Labour MP for Unley in South Australia's parliament for 20 years.

Gideon Haigh

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ahh, you're one of those guys who thinks Steve Waugh didn't have natural talent.

I used to think that too. He probably, like me only saw the last 1/3rd or 1/2 of Waugh's career where he cut out a lot of the shots he used to play when he was young. This made it seem that he wasnt a talented batsman and couldn't play all the shots in the book.

 

[Red]

I used to think that too. He probably, like me only saw the last 1/3rd or 1/2 of Waugh's career where he cut out a lot of the shots he used to play when he was young. This made it seem that he wasnt a talented batsman and couldn't play all the shots in the book.

That's true.

 

[Muloghonto]

Ahh, you're one of those guys who thinks Steve Waugh didn't have natural talent.

Beyond the required 'above average hand-eye coordination' that is basic to all successful batsmen (even at FC level), no, i don't think Steve Waugh had much 'natural talent'. His reflexes were not particularly good and he was limited in his shot-play ( a consequence of not excellent ability to pick the line and length early). he didnt play the ball late either. But, he was very good in his shot-selection, a function of practice and had a very disciplined mind. As i said, in many a sport, you don't have to be an outrageous natural talent to succeed. its obviously the most common way to succeed, since cultivating and exercising immense mental fortitude is that much rarer in sport and virtually most non-academic related fields of life.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Beyond the required 'above average hand-eye coordination' that is basic to all successful batsmen (even at FC level), no, i don't think Steve Waugh had much 'natural talent'. His reflexes were not particularly good and he was limited in his shot-play ( a consequence of not excellent ability to pick the line and length early). he didnt play the ball late either. But, he was very good in his shot-selection, a function of practice and had a very disciplined mind. As i said, in many a sport, you don't have to be an outrageous natural talent to succeed. its obviously the most common way to succeed, since cultivating and exercising immense mental fortitude is that much rarer in sport and virtually most non-academic related fields of life.

I think you've confused his unwillingness to play shots with him having an inability to play them bud. Good effort though, easy enough mistake to make.