***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14

[Prensel]

Where's Steven O'Keefe at

 

[straw man]

He had a pretty bad start statistically with the West Indies and South African tours but since then, he's finished most series with an average below thirty. The one exception to that was against the Windies here where his action looked horrible and he was falling over at the crease and losing all of his pace and bounce. He's since corrected that since going back to Otago and was reaching speeds of 145 in this test, he was also the only bowler in the match to consistently average over 135kmh.

As long as he keeps his action stable and keeps working on finding the right lengths, he'll develop into as good a bowler as the other two - he seems to get reverse swing a fair few overs before the other two do also.

Agree this is especially important for Wagner in part due to lack of height. Heard on the radio he'd said in an interview before play started one day that he didn't like bowling full as felt the ball came out floaty and easy to hit, so he wanted to bowl short of a length. This worked really well on a pitch that was quite hard, quick by NZ standards and against Indian batsmen, some of whom are still a little suspect against short bowling. He's right that he's floaty when bowls full though. His next challenge, apart from just generally backing up his last performance, is going to be to bowl on (likely) slower pitches in the West Indies that are very unrewarding to short-of-a-length bowling. He's going to need to adjust to right on a good length and be pretty accurate. Still bowl bouncers of course - he wouldn't be Wagner if he didn't, but generally bowl fuller than he did in Auckland without overpitching into floaty territory.

 

[SteveNZ]

Even if no one else did, I enjoyed that effort immensely Dan. I had completely forgotten Hogg played a few Tests, and didn't know the back story with a couple of those. I actually thought Krejza had something about him, I've never seen an offie (who bowls with a legal action) turn it as much as him. Whether or not he was up to it, the premise of dropping a guy after 2 Tests, when his first yields 12, is ludicrous. Was he maligned because he didn't bowl Australia to victory in his 2nd Test, when SA dragged in 400+? I remember him getting Amla in that Test, and that was every inch a Test-class dismissal.

During DV's time, spin stocks look like this: Wiseman, Walker, Patel, Astle, Martin, Sodhi. Hardly knocking down Dan's door

 

[Blocky]

I'd take Hogg into the NZ test side now.

 

[Days of Grace]

I'd take Hogg into the NZ test side now.

Now you're being ridiculous.

 

[SteveNZ]

I'd take Hogg into the NZ test side now.

Cmon mate...this is a guy who averaged the same at the supposed peak of his cricketing career as Ish is doing now at 21. So you're getting an older version of that, with much less batting ability and no longevity.

Plus watching Brad Hogg play cricket makes me break out in awful hives. You don't want that for me

 

[Dan]

Where's Steven O'Keefe at

Nobody knows. My theory is that he got with Andrew Hilditch's daughter or something, and he refused to pick him ever since. Fact is he's got the best record of any Australian spinner post-Warne, and that should have given him at least a handful of Tests to have a crack. Very Vettori-esque in his approach, IMO, but actually took wickets against England for Aus A in 2010/11. Then got overlooked for Xavier ****ing Doherty and Michael ****ing Beer.

Heard rumours as well that he's not the type of character that would 'fit in' in the Australian dressing room. No idea if that has any truth to it or would have any relevance in how he bowls, but may explain why he;s constantly overlooked.

Even if no one else did, I enjoyed that effort immensely Dan. I had completely forgotten Hogg played a few Tests, and didn't know the back story with a couple of those. I actually thought Krejza had something about him, I've never seen an offie (who bowls with a legal action) turn it as much as him. Whether or not he was up to it, the premise of dropping a guy after 2 Tests, when his first yields 12, is ludicrous. Was he maligned because he didn't bowl Australia to victory in his 2nd Test, when SA dragged in 400+? I remember him getting Amla in that Test, and that was every inch a Test-class dismissal.

During DV's time, spin stocks look like this: Wiseman, Walker, Patel, Astle, Martin, Sodhi. Hardly knocking down Dan's door

He was maligned for being impossibly rubbish. He turned the ball, yes, and his highlights actually don't look too bad. But between the dismissal of Amla and others like it, he bowled absolute crap, leading to his career economy rate of 4.5 an over.

Now I'm all for attacking spinners, but you cannot be leaking that many and expect to be selected. I mean, if you take 12 wickets on debut, you'd expect your average to be <40 after 2 games. Krejza relied on big spin and nothing else. That doesn't give you long-term success at international level.

 

[Dan]

I'd take Hogg into the NZ test side now.

If Tests were played with a white ball, yes.

Otherwise, no.

 

[_Ed_]

How bloody good was Spearman at slip?

Yeah, outstanding. I really liked Spearman - shame he never really brought his batting up to Test standard.

During DV's time, spin stocks look like this: Wiseman, Walker, Patel, Astle, Martin, Sodhi. Hardly knocking down Dan's door

True, although I always thought Wiseman was a bit underrated and unfairly treated. Grant Bradburn getting picked ahead of him for a few tests in 2001 was farcical.

 

[SteveNZ]

He was maligned for being impossibly rubbish. He turned the ball, yes, and his highlights actually don't look too bad. But between the dismissal of Amla and others like it, he bowled absolute crap, leading to his career economy rate of 4.5 an over.

Now I'm all for attacking spinners, but you cannot be leaking that many and expect to be selected. I mean, if you take 12 wickets on debut, you'd expect your average to be <40 after 2 games. Krejza relied on big spin and nothing else. That doesn't give you long-term success at international level.

Fair enough. I think this holds relevance NZ-wise in the fact that obviously consistency held him back from selection thereon in. It wasn't due to a lack of ability to bowl a hard-ripping off-spinner that pitched and spun through the gate, and from memory he had a slider/doosra as well? So to me, you know he has the tools - the system has obviously failed as well to get him alongside the best coaches, get him landing it more consistently and obviously contributing with the talent he's got.

So that's probably where NZ is at with Ish. They've (not I, incidentally) identified him with the most tools to succeed as an international spinner, and they're going to get in behind him and back the system to contribute to long-term success. With the likes of Ash Mallett, Jenner, Warne etc seemingly comfortable with being available on long/short-term basis, I'd say Australia let Krejza down as much as the reverse.

In regards to Wiseman, I always thought he was passable without being up to the standard. He'll argue it was to do with his treatment, especially in regards to Fleming who apparently was far from a fan for whatever reason

 

[hendrix]

Any changes likely for India, given they need to win this test?

I'd maybe look at bringing in an extra bowler for Rahane, but the only one of them who'd bat well enough would be Ashwin, and he's in such poor form I just don't see him being much of a threat.

I also think India should replace Zaheer with Bhuvneshwar. They're pretty much the same bowler now, except Zak is getting worse, and Bhuvneshwar should be getting better.

 

[Dan]

Any changes likely for India, given they need to win this test?

I'd maybe look at bringing in an extra bowler for Rahane, but the only one of them who'd bat well enough would be Ashwin, and he's in such poor form I just don't see him being much of a threat.

I also think India should replace Zaheer with Bhuvneshwar. They're pretty much the same bowler now, except Zak is getting worse, and Bhuvneshwar should be getting better.

Dhoni at 6 and Jadeja at 7 after NZ skittled the top order in Auckland would be a very gutsy call. Rahane hasn't exactly done anything wrong either.

I can't see them making a change, unless Zaheer has a niggle of some description. And then I wouldn't be surprised to see Pandey ahead of Bhuvneshwar

 

[hendrix]

Despite them bowling us out for 105, it just feels like they're lacking bowlers.

There was a period in which Zak's fitness could've really cost India in that second innings. Fortunately for them, Ishant and Shami really turned up, and even Jadeja picked up a wicket, but there was a point in which Shami bowled a 7 over spell while Zak and Ishant rotated and Taylor was batting.

 

[Blocky]

I still say the 105 all out was more an indictment on some terrible panicked play by NZ and the fact that we've got two guys in our top order that we can't expect performances out of We were 3 for 30 before Williamson and McCullum rescued us in the first innings and were only a couple of chances away from being 5 for 50. Once three batsmen got their heads right and played, it became easy

 

[OverratedSanity]

Any changes likely for India, given they need to win this test?

I'd maybe look at bringing in an extra bowler for Rahane, but the only one of them who'd bat well enough would be Ashwin, and he's in such poor form I just don't see him being much of a threat.

I also think India should replace Zaheer with Bhuvneshwar. They're pretty much the same bowler now, except Zak is getting worse, and Bhuvneshwar should be getting better.

Leaving out Rahane would be a terrible thing to do. He spent years on the sidelines when he deserved a proper go, and now he's finally come good on a tough SA tour, so to drop him after he got a bad call would destroy his confidence. Need to show immense faith in him and retain him for the next 2-3 series. Talking only about Tests, though, he's been bad in ODI's.

Agree about Zaheer, though... Bhuvneshwar and Yadav both need to come in soon. Just a Shane Ishant managed to pick up 8 wickets.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I still say the 105 all out was more an indictment on some terrible panicked play by NZ and the fact that we've got two guys in our top order that we can't expect performances out of We were 3 for 30 before Williamson and McCullum rescued us in the first innings and were only a couple of chances away from being 5 for 50. Once three batsmen got their heads right and played, it became easy

Nah, we definitely bowled well. As an Indian fan, I know exactly when our bowlers bowl well because it's really not all that common. Shami was excellent, and even Ishant bowled ok in the second innings.

 

[Jono]

I still say the 105 all out was more an indictment on some terrible panicked play by NZ and the fact that we've got two guys in our top order that we can't expect performances out of We were 3 for 30 before Williamson and McCullum rescued us in the first innings and were only a couple of chances away from being 5 for 50. Once three batsmen got their heads right and played, it became easy

I know I'd panic if I had a 300 run lead.

 

[hendrix]

Shami was absolutely superb in NZ's second innings. A 7 over spell after lunch that was as unplayable as some of Southee's spells. Really excellent bowling.

The possible weakness could have come after seeing him off, but even Ishant was decent and got the wickets India needed from him. If he hadn't, there might've been a repeat of the first innings, but India's bowlers lifted. It was a good bowling performance.

 

[Jono]

Just a Shane Ishant managed to pick up 8 wickets.

9 biatch, we bag him enough, don't sell him short when he actually takes wickets

 

[Flem274*]

yeah i don't see how you couldn't call that a good performance with the ball. even when nz hit shots they thought were safe blokes like jadeja took wickets with their fielding. kw and ross would have been complimented for good cricket if they had played their out shots to lesser test fielders.

edit: i do think blocky is right there was an element of panic involved - the mccullum run out being an example. but it was brought about by good bowling and further good bowling ensured there was no escape.