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***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14
- Thread starter BeeGee
- Start date
HeathDavisSpeed
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Interesting that Cricinfo thinks the Cake Tin is Ross Taylor's home ground.
Flem274*
123/5
in b4 kippax central firebucks post
Blocky
Banned
No Birthday gift there, just a usual bog standard Guptill innings - disrupted his team mates, slowed down our start and this time, didn't have the fortune to kick on to a point that the fielders spread and give him easy scoring options.
Lets hope Taylor gives me a gift.
Blocky
Banned
It wasn't really, it was just Guptill playing the way he has every game when the french cut, misfields and thick edges aren't getting him runs early at the crease. This is what we can expect from Guptill on most occasions - it's why there is no point selecting him in the side if we want a consistent performance, because he doesn't have any ability to score runs when he's not hitting the cover off it.
Athlai
Not Terrible
Born in Lower Hutt and they're obviously lazy
Athlai
Not Terrible
Nails it.
Guptill isn't as good as Williamson or Taylor. That doesn't mean he should be dropped.
Blocky
Banned
No, but my gut feel is the rest of the team get a little disrupted by the way Guptill plays and tend to go away from their natural tendencies to try. You'd argue that they need to just play their game, but when you're going at less than three an over and you know you need to be scoring at least 280 to be competitive, it's going to grate you.
Blocky
Banned
Williamson playing a game different from his natural game in order to supplement the tendencies of Guptill however... that's why he should be dropped. He has a very consistent performance - A: Can't turn over strike until the fielders are on the boundary. B: Can't seem to hit from Ball 1 anymore like he used to. C: The other players stop rotating strike when he's at the crease.
Flem274*
123/5
that odi strike rate of 74 certainly screams strike rotation
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
I know you know that Taylor and Guptill's strike rates are similar and I know you know that doesn't mean a thing.
From what I've seen, Latham has very good strike rotation.
All it needs to be is average to be better than Guptill though.
Blocky
Banned
Flem - please read these bullet points
- Guptill can hit a very long cricket ball and is one of the best strikers of a ball in the NZ side when in form
- Given enough balls faced, Guptill will generally increase his scoring rate due to the above fact
- Due to thinking of him as a striker, most teams will drop the field back when he plays, meaning he then starts to find more runs during this play
However
- Guptill has no clue where the ball is heading off his bat, outlined several times, Guptill plays "see ball, hit ball" with no concern for where he hits it
- Guptill cannot softly place the ball into gaps, meaning he cannot rotate strike
- Guptill constantly gets bogged down at the start of the innings and no longer seems to be able to hit from ball one.
- While Guptill is at the crease, our other batsman seem to have major difficulties rotating the strike, when he leaves, suddenly we see a bevvy of singles and usually a marked increase in the run rate
- Guptill's average and career strike rate rely heavily on early performances and a golden patch against Zimbabwe and two innings in England - outside of that, he's been mud.
- Guptill due to the tendencies above, disrupts our ability to plan consistent outcomes in innings and requires someone like Ryder to go hell for leather for us to have any chance at approaching an RPO of 5 at the tenth over mark.
Seeing as he doesn't seem to be able to just hit the ball from ball one anymore, we require him to face sixty balls before he can actually get his strike rate up - at which point, he doesn't actually strike it any better or any quicker than Taylor, McCullum, Anderson, Ronchi, Ryder - and he doesn't have the ability against spin that Williamson has - so in the current environment, he's our worst player in the side, because he can't hit early, and he can't hit spin.
Flem274*
123/5
tl;dr
find me a better opener and i might listen. guptill isn't perfect, but he's better than you and hendrix have ever given him credit for and he deserves to be in the team. he is certainly better than latham in the short forms at this stage. that may change with time.
i just don't understand how you and hendrix can make some good points, not just on guptill but on cricket in general, but then leap right to the extremist side of a debate. the pair of you probably don't see yourselves as extreme, but advocating dropping a bloke with a reasonable odi record (and bringing his missus into it) for daryl mitchell and his whopping list A average of 27 is extreme.
find me a better opener and i might listen. guptill isn't perfect, but he's better than you and hendrix have ever given him credit for and he deserves to be in the team. he is certainly better than latham in the short forms at this stage. that may change with time.
i just don't understand how you and hendrix can make some good points, not just on guptill but on cricket in general, but then leap right to the extremist side of a debate. the pair of you probably don't see yourselves as extreme, but advocating dropping a bloke with a reasonable odi record (and bringing his missus into it) for daryl mitchell and his whopping list A average of 27 is extreme.
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Blocky
Banned
tldr.
You don't actually want to discuss the points, you just have your mind made up that Guptill is an amazing player, rather than the realisation that he's not. I've given about 10 different options better than him and we also already had the "pretty hard to judge a guy on his first 18 innings in LA cricket" discussion too. Mitchell is one of the many options that are there. Boring circular bull****. That's how I summarise talking with you.