*Official* English Football Season 2013-14

[Tom Halsey]

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but surely Van Persie's drop in output this season compared to his tremendous performance in Fergie's season is a massive difference. If he plays at the same level as last year, I'm guessing United are in the top 4.

RvP went through a run of something like 10 games without a goal last season and it didn't affect us too badly then. He's also played well this year when he's been available and I'm not sure where the impression has come from that he hasn't done so, because I've heard it several times now. Sure he's been injured a bit but we were struggling badly before he was injured too, and as I say didn't do too badly whenever he failed to contribute last season.

 

[Jarquis]

Everyone else is quite a bit better this year too tbf

 

[Uppercut]

At times he's been rushed back after injury and not played too well, and although he's been fairly good he definitely hasn't matched his pre-Christmas form last year. I do think it's more of a factor than it sometimes gets credit for. Something doesn't quite add up with some fans: when we lose it's because of the worst players in the team, but when we win it's because of the best players. Both can't be true, and you have to say that RVP performing at his best is probably more important than Cleverley and Valencia having one of their less painfully bad games.

 

[sledger]

His output has still been pretty decent though (7 goals in 11 games).

 

[NUFAN]

RvP went through a run of something like 10 games without a goal last season and it didn't affect us too badly then. He's also played well this year when he's been available and I'm not sure where the impression has come from that he hasn't done so, because I've heard it several times now. Sure he's been injured a bit but we were struggling badly before he was injured too, and as I say didn't do too badly whenever he failed to contribute last season.

How many games last season did RvP miss and how many games was he just average in? I'm confident that the number is higher already this year and we are only half way through. Obviously, there are other issues, but if someone asks me what has changed from last season - Its Fergie gone and RvP not performing at the amazing level he was performing at last year.

 

[sledger]

Sir Alex Ferguson cottons on to suspicion he is becoming unwanted distraction for Manchester United - Telegraph

Much as I don't rate Moyes, it's hard to disagree with a lot of what is said here.

Obviously it'd be folly to cite Ferguson's continuing presence at games as a particularly influential factor in Utd's poor performance, but it really can't be doing Moyes and the team any good. When starting a new role in a new job or whatever, the last thing anyone needs is your prestigious, and highly successful, predecessor watching over you at all times with everyone desperate to see his reaction to your performance. If you're to be successful you need freedom to go out and have a go at doing things your way and room to make mistakes without having that sort of cloud hanging over you.

The whole thing seems to give some credence to what Roy Keane has recently said about Ferguson, i.e. that he is totally obsessed with Manchester United. As someone who is recently retired you'd think he'd be glad to get away from it all; I can understand him attending home games, that seems normal enough for someone in his position, but traveling up to Sunderland mid-week to see a Carling Cup game?

 

[Ikki]

AFAIK, Liverpool basically banned Shankly from attending games after Paisley took over.

Also, I'm with NUFAN's thinking a bit. I'd love to believe the United team is ****, but they aren't. And missing RVP and Rooney is quite a big thing. Half the problem with United right now is the expectations of the fans. If United go behind, those nerves transmit to the field. If you have those guys scoring and setting up goals - before the opposition ideally - then that pressure is felt less. Until they regain that confidence and Moyes starts to be trusted I think United are gonna have a tough time.

 

[grecian]

Well I did mention earlier in the season that rvp's injury was self inflicted, he was rushed too early just as he was always rushed back by Arsenal, hence more injury, he seems to have done the same with Wayne. Moyes said he was carrying an injury last time he played.

Fergie was very good at letting players recuperate fully. This had a two-fold effect in that the players came back fully-fit, and it showed to the stand-ins that Taggart had faith in them. It's not unlucky IMHO.

 

[Uppercut]

Sir Alex Ferguson cottons on to suspicion he is becoming unwanted distraction for Manchester United - Telegraph

Much as I don't rate Moyes, it's hard to disagree with a lot of what is said here.

Obviously it'd be folly to cite Ferguson's continuing presence at games as a particularly influential factor in Utd's poor performance, but it really can't be doing Moyes and the team any good. When starting a new role in a new job or whatever, the last thing anyone needs is your prestigious, and highly successful, predecessor watching over you at all times with everyone desperate to see his reaction to your performance. If you're to be successful you need freedom to go out and have a go at doing things your way and room to make mistakes without having that sort of cloud hanging over you.

The whole thing seems to give some credence to what Roy Keane has recently said about Ferguson, i.e. that he is totally obsessed with Manchester United. As someone who is recently retired you'd think he'd be glad to get away from it all; I can understand him attending home games, that seems normal enough for someone in his position, but traveling up to Sunderland mid-week to see a Carling Cup game?

I can't see either Moyes or the players giving half a ****. You just don't go onto the pitch thinking about the fact that Ferguson's watching, I'd be fairly surprised if they even knew he was there.

The reasoning is just bad pop psychology. It could also have applied to Busby and Charlton's involvement when Ferguson took over. I guarantee that if the team had performed well this season, people would have cited continuity and keeping in touch with its history by keeping Ferguson involved as a reason why. It's just something that happens when a team is losing games: people pick up on irrelevant details and write stories about why they're making everything terrible.

 

[Uppercut]

Well I did mention earlier in the season that rvp's injury was self inflicted, he was rushed too early just as he was always rushed back by Arsenal, hence more injury, he seems to have done the same with Wayne. Moyes said he was carrying an injury last time he played.

Fergie was very good at letting players recuperate fully. This had a two-fold effect in that the players came back fully-fit, and it showed to the stand-ins that Taggart had faith in them. It's not unlucky IMHO.

Yeah that is true. Also Moyes had decided RVP wasn't fit enough for the full Newcastle game but changed his mind and kept him on because "people would have asked questions". It was really pathetic and maybe his lowest moment so far.

 

[sledger]

I can't see either Moyes or the players giving half a ****. You just don't go onto the pitch thinking about the fact that Ferguson's watching, I'd be fairly surprised if they even knew he was there.

The reasoning is just bad pop psychology. It could also have applied to Busby and Charlton's involvement when Ferguson took over. I guarantee that if the team had performed well this season, people would have cited continuity and keeping in touch with its history by keeping Ferguson involved as a reason why. It's just something that happens when a team is losing games: people pick up on irrelevant details and write stories about why they're making everything terrible.

Rather than ask them if they think he's there you may as well inquire as to whether the Pope is Catholic, that's kind of my point. Whether they are thinking about it is more or less secondary, because he is there, everyone knows it, the media are of course going to make a huge thing out of it and this will inevitably pile on the pressure.

Like I said, this is unlikely to be the root of the problems, but it surely doesn't help.

 

[BoyBrumby]

"I'm gay" says Thomas Hitlzlsperger

From the BBC.

Good on him.

Is he still playing now? Haven't seen much of him since he was at yer Toffees for a while.

Owner of a truly magnificent German/Brummie hybrid accent.

 

[Jarquis]

Retired 4 months ago. Timing say a lot about the prevalent attitude still within the game IMO

 

[Furball]

Retired 4 months ago. Timing say a lot about the prevalent attitude still within the game IMO

Interestingly he was quoted in the Guardian as saying that it was never an issue in any dressing room he's been in, which would imply that his team-mates were well aware.

 

[BoyBrumby]

31 seems very young to give it away. Has he had injury woes?

Hadn't heard any rumours about him at all either. Have it on good authority that two ex-prem stars are also gay, but neither of them has come out yet and both are a fair bit older than the Hammer.

 

[Jarquis]

Interestingly he was quoted in the Guardian as saying that it was never an issue in any dressing room he's been in, which would imply that his team-mates were well aware.

Was in a v.long term relationship until sometime in 2007 so I doubt anything at all was suspected for the first half of his career. Don't think teammates were aware though as he also said "I wonder if something was ever said of the fact I liked to read" or words to that effect after he said that it was only of the stereotypically 'gay' differences he had.

 

[GIMH]

31 seems very young to give it away. Has he had injury woes?

Hadn't heard any rumours about him at all either. Have it on good authority that two ex-prem stars are also gay, but neither of them has come out yet and both are a fair bit older than the Hammer.

One of them ex-Arsenal/England?

 

[BoyBrumby]

One of them ex-Arsenal/England?

Nope.

One is an Arse man (sorry, innuendos are an illness), but not a Pom.

 

[Pothas]

So how many are City going to get? I am thinking 8.

 

[Jarquis]

I've been trying so hard to hate Negredo since he signed for City. Just a brilliant player.