***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14

[Flem274*]

I don't have much of an issue with your overall point there; I was just picking out a personal pet hate about how people view South African cricket really. The CSA Provincial three day competition is an important part of the South African season and I wish Australia and New Zealand could manage to set up similar competitions to bridge the gap between club cricket and the concentrated First Class competitions they run, but it shouldn't really have First Class status, and the standard of South Africa's premier competition being amazing doesn't mean it's (essentially) combined second/third XI comp is too. The Plunket Shield is a much weaker competition that the Sunfoil Series but stronger than the Provincial three day, just as clearly really.

In many ways this actually helps your overall point, but I only took up the micro-argument.

Hawke Cup mate.

 

[Prince EWS]

You have as much clue about what level of cricket I've played as you do the color of my underwear.

Have you played against "Super" Matt Dorn?

 

[Flem274*]

Are you Anton Devcich?

 

[hendrix]

Go have a look at Wagner taking five wickets in six balls on YouTube, in a very short sample you'll see him take it right to left, then left to right..

There's a song in that somewhere, isn't there?

He bowls to the right,
He bowls to the leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeft...

Oh, wait

 

[Blocky]

I don't have much of an issue with your overall point there; I was just picking out a personal pet hate about how people view South African cricket really. The CSA Provincial three day competition is an important part of the South African season and I wish Australia and New Zealand could manage to set up similar competitions to bridge the gap between club cricket and the concentrated First Class competitions they run, but it shouldn't really have First Class status, and the standard of South Africa's premier competition being amazing doesn't mean it's (essentially) combined second/third XI comp is too. The Plunket Shield is a much weaker competition that the Sunfoil Series but stronger than the Provincial three day, just as clearly really.

In many ways this actually helps your overall point, but I only took up the micro-argument.

The overall point seems to be drowned in rhetoric from people who don't like the fact that I have no respect for Guptill and believe that our domestic competition is extremely poor and no indicator of success at the international level. I don't know how many Sinclair, Franklin, Papps, Fulton, Bell, Redmond, Cumming, Nicol, Guptill etcetera, etcetera we have go through to accept this. The main points that should have been discussed was whether ODI cricket form as a bowler is a better indicator of success in test cricket versus first class cricket, and whether or not Ryder should be considered as an opening batsman if no other spot is available for him in the side.

 

[Bahnz]

You have as much clue about what level of cricket I've played as you do the color of my underwear.

I'm going for black with grey stripes. But regardless as to whether I'm right in my assessment or not, the amount of time since you first logged on to cricket web, or the amount of cricket you've played are both fairly irrelevant to issues like has Boult been bowling out swingers for the last 6 months and is the standard of 2nd division SA cricket that crash hot.

 

[Flem274*]

Hey any Indian fans wanna talk about cricket?

please refrain from mentioning:
Neil Wagner
Martin Guptill
Kruger van Wyk
NZ opening batsmen options

but feel free to mention:
Indian bowlers
Indian batsmen
The Greatest Fielding Team To Play The Game
Tom Latham

Not an Indian fan as such but I wanna see Zaheer, Shami, Yadav. Two swing bowlers and a fast shock bowler for once the new ball wears off.

 

[BackFootPunch]

Hawke Cup mate.

PEWS will probably get in first but really it should be the Futures League in Aus and the Provincial A comp here that fill the same role as the CSA 3-day comp. Things are limited here by a lack of funds I guess. It's a lot easier and cheaper to get 6 teams all in one place just after New Years than it is to play home and away games involving travel and missing work etc. throughout the season.

 

[Blocky]

Devvy bowling pace is about as likely as Guptill having a meaningful test career from this point on wards.

Protip, I left Hamilton years ago to play professional cricket in the UK and Netherlands.

 

[Prince EWS]

Hawke Cup mate.

The Hawke Cup is what I'd like to expand; at the moment it seems more like a way for players from outside the main cities to be recognised than anything. I'd love to see it run more consistently across the season with teams from the city centres included (although probably less teams overall) and more consistently over three day matches. Obviously there are major logistical and financial roadblocks to this however; we probably don't live in a world where this is possible.

 

[hendrix]

Not an Indian fan as such but I wanna see Zaheer, Shami, Yadav. Two swing bowlers and a fast shock bowler for once the new ball wears off.

Yeah. Shouldn't be any reverse for Zak and Shami though, so either Jadeja or Ashwin are going to have to do well if they don't get early wickets.

Still can't believe they're leaving Ojha out.

 

[Flem274*]

The overall point seems to be drowned in rhetoric from people who don't like the fact that I have no respect for Guptill and believe that our domestic competition is extremely poor and no indicator of success at the international level. I don't know how many Sinclair, Franklin, Papps, Fulton, Bell, Redmond, Cumming, Nicol, Guptill etcetera, etcetera we have go through to accept this. The main points that should have been discussed was whether ODI cricket form as a bowler is a better indicator of success in test cricket versus first class cricket, and whether or not Ryder should be considered as an opening batsman if no other spot is available for him in the side.

Cumming thinks Guptill is good (probably) and has played a higher level of cricket than you have, so you suck nyah nyah

 

[Flem274*]

Protip, I left Hamilton

Can't fault that decision

 

[Blocky]

This is hilarious.

edit: not that it matters, but April comes before July. I expect you to argue otherwise though even if I posted a calendar.

Granted, but this wasn't my first account on CricketWeb. I lost my password and no longer had the @xtra.co.nz email address that my first account was registered with so made another account.

 

[BackFootPunch]

The Hawke Cup is what I'd like to expand; at the moment it seems more like a way for players from outside the main cities to be recognised than anything. I'd love to see it run more consistently across the season with teams from the city centres included (although probably less teams overall) and more consistently over three day matches. Obviously there are major logistical and financial roadblocks to this however; we probably don't live in a world where this is possible.

There were metropolitan teams involved years ago but these teams ended up basically being the 2nd XI of whichever city they were in. The Dunedin Metro Hawke Cup side was the Volts B team at one point I believe and there was no way the districts teams could compete with that. Which is why it's surprising that Hamilton still has a team in the Hawke Cup comp, given their proximity to the base of a FC side.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Multi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Flem274*]

The Hawke Cup is what I'd like to expand; at the moment it seems more like a way for players from outside the main cities to be recognised than anything. I'd love to see it run more consistently across the season with teams from the city centres included (although probably less teams overall) and more consistently over three day matches. Obviously there are major logistical and financial roadblocks to this however; we probably don't live in a world where this is possible.

Hawke Cup is an extremely important feeder system for both the Districts sides. The main cities use their club competitions. But yeah even though the Hawke Cup was set up to give the minor associations in the country something to play for once CD and ND superseded them (and used to get decent crowds along according to my old man), getting the main cities in there would be good for the game. Shane Bond is a huge fan: he despises two day two innings cricket which is what gets played in the cities.

edit: looks like I got it slightly wrong then judging by BFP post.

 

[Prince EWS]

PEWS will probably get in first but really it should be the Futures League in Aus and the Provincial A comp here that fill the same role as the CSA 3-day comp. Things are limited here by a lack of funds I guess. It's a lot easier and cheaper to get 6 teams all in one place just after New Years than it is to play home and away games involving travel and missing work etc. throughout the season.

What I like about the CSA 3 day comp is that there are double the teams there are top flight franchises; it's not just for contracted players and top flight coach favourites. Having less teams at that level would keep the quality higher but you have to find a balance; I think having about 6 top flight domestic sides and then a level completely below that with another 12 is ideally it. That's why I'm keener on the "Three-day Hawke Cup on drugs" idea than the provincial A setup (even if it was expanded and played properly across the season) which I feel could be a little exclusive. Australia is much more complicated because of the rigid state divisions but ending the focus on Under 23 players in the Futures League and making it the CA Cup again would be a start.

 

[Blocky]

The Hawke Cup is what I'd like to expand; at the moment it seems more like a way for players from outside the main cities to be recognised than anything. I'd love to see it run more consistently across the season with teams from the city centres included (although probably less teams overall) and more consistently over three day matches. Obviously there are major logistical and financial roadblocks to this however; we probably don't live in a world where this is possible.

The major issue in the Hawke Cup is that administrators in New Zealand are terrible, funding is even worse and selection policies are laughable. Actually, not just Hawke Cup. I don't know how many players I've faced who never got a chance for higher honors who were better than stalwarts of our first class scene, especially in the late nineties and early 00s.

I was fortunate that I went to the right school and played for the right clubs.

 

[Zinzan]

Agree with most about Wagner and the fairly ordinary level he played most of his cricket in SA, although 7 chaps beating on 1 & starting to get personal about it is perhaps a tad rough

Re: Guptill; For all his natural ball-striking ability, he needs to be told under no uncertain terms that it's just not acceptable to waste deliveries up front in T20s & ODIs. Aside from those 2 ODI superb tons in England and the T20 ton in SA, he's struggled to get out of the blocks far too often in the last couple of years. He bats as if his wicket is the most valuable in the team, and he needs to be reminded that it ain't. The problem with being 3 off 25 deliveries in an ODI or 3 off 8 in a T20 is if he does then get out it's been an utter waste and the next batsman is under more pressure than he would have been two overs earlier.