***Official*** India in New Zealand 2013/14

[SteveNZ]

Not sure I'd put us at 3 tbh. Jury is still out on Wagner and Sodhi is a project player. Southee, Boult and Anderson are the only bowlers proven in their roles.

Not sure Anderson is proven either...not sure I'd put us at 3 either. We might have the third best new ball attack in the world but India and England could lay claim to having a relatively equal overall attack.

 

[Bahnz]

Does this include his time as a poor test bowler?

Including stats from Southee's first incarnation doesn't tell us anything about how he's likely to go now. By my count he has 6 home tests under his belt since becoming a worthwhile selection.

No but his home record since 2013 is still only ok (24 wickets at a tick under 28).

 

[hendrix]

Hmmm...are we really ready to say that Anderson is proven in his role? Yeah, he picked up some handy wickets against WI, but that was generally courtesy of some pretty miserable batting from the technically deficient Windies. India will provide a far better examination of whether he's ready to play the Watson/Kallis/Oram role.

By the end of the series he was being used as a genuine wicket taker, and was actually bowling before Wagner. Moreover, if you watch how he bowled (not just the wickets he took) he was beating the bat regularly, was getting more swing with the old ball than anyone else and was also the most economical.

Probably not entirely proven, given he's only played 5 tests, but I certainly think the Watson/Kallis role is not an overstatement of what we've seen at all (bowling wise, not batting obviously).

 

[hendrix]

Not sure Anderson is proven either...not sure I'd put us at 3 either. We might have the third best new ball attack in the world but India and England could lay claim to having a relatively equal overall attack.

Pakistan are ahead of both of these teams by a country mile IMO.

 

[hendrix]

OK so I just realised that Ojha is not even in the test squad.

Awesome news for NZ.

 

[SteveNZ]

Pakistan are ahead of both of these teams by a country mile IMO.

Based on their first Test line-up? A world class spinner apart (and Khan who is doing everything to be considered world class as well) I think it's a bit early to be saying that. On talent/potential, no doubt.

 

[hendrix]

Based on their first Test line-up? A world class spinner apart (and Khan who is doing everything to be considered world class as well) I think it's a bit early to be saying that. On talent/potential, no doubt.

the lineup they put out against SA was good. Junaid, Irfan, Babar and Ajmal.

But yeah, possibly too early to call that.

 

[Athlai]

NZ have arguably the 3rd best new ball pair. I think that is a much more accurate statement than 3rd best attack. Sure the new ball pair goes a long bloody way to giving them that but our 3rd and 4th options aren't great.

South Africa have one of the greatest in history.
I'd then say Australia is 2nd.
England/NZ around par with us edging it on current form.

Then it's daylight.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Pak's new ball attack is nothing special. We haven't exactly been very good with the new ball tbh.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Harris and Johnson in current form are every bit as good as Steyn and Phillander

 

[Bahnz]

On current form I'd say they're quicker and better than Steyn and Philander.

 

[Flem274*]

quicker coming before better exposes you as the pace whore you really are.

Would still take Steyn and Philander. They've been doing it for longer and are less likely to crock themselves physically (Harris) or mentally (Johnson). Johnson and Harris need more time as a combo to push for the number one spot.

 

[Shri]

the lineup they put out against SA was good. Junaid, Irfan, Babar and Ajmal.

But yeah, possibly too early to call that.

Remember, Amir returns in a year or two as well.

 

[SteveNZ]

NZ have arguably the 3rd best new ball pair. I think that is a much more accurate statement than 3rd best attack. Sure the new ball pair goes a long bloody way to giving them that but our 3rd and 4th options aren't great.

South Africa have one of the greatest in history.
I'd then say Australia is 2nd.
England/NZ around par with us edging it on current form.

Then it's daylight.

Wouldn't we love to have Ben Stokes as our #6 and first change option. Curse the league team that employed his old man.

Is Asif really going to come back in when his ban is served? Can't imagine it'll be that easy

 

[Zinzan]

^ I'm sorry but one good series does not suddenly promote Johnson & Harris up there with Philander & Steyn, form or not form. Johnson averaged 13 in what was a dream series for him. Philander averages 17 in his whole 20 test career to date (with over 100 wickets), not to mention the exploits of one Dale Steyn.

 

[Prince EWS]

Wouldn't we love to have Ben Stokes as our #6 and first change option. Curse the league team that employed his old man.

Yeah it's a bit of a tough one; he moved when he was 12. I tend to look at 13 as the golden cut-off but there were photos of him on his twitter account draped in All Blacks gear that have since been removed, and I'm certainly not one to talk having never even been to England. You do wonder though: which international team would he support if he wasn't part of it? Indeed, which international team would he play for if he could live wherever he liked, play domestic cricket for whichever team he wanted to and get paid the same regardless? It takes a bit of the sanctity away from it all at times, but you can't argue that England deserve credit for developing players like Ballance and Stokes in their system. I somehow doubt they'd be what they are if they'd only played at "home".

Is Asif really going to come back in when his ban is served? Can't imagine it'll be that easy

I somehow doubt Asif will be back personally, but all reports suggest Amir will be straight back into domestic cricket after his ban; I'd be surprised if he never played for Pakistan again. He'd played the innocent young victim card pretty well.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Even if they are'nt quite as good, siddle and lyon are much better support than anything the saffers can muster

 

[OverratedSanity]

^ I'm sorry but one good series does not suddenly promote Johnson & Harris up there with Philander & Steyn, form or not form. Johnson averaged 13 in what was a dream series for him. Philander averages 17 in his whole 20 test career to date (with over 100 wickets), not to mention the exploits of one Dale Steyn.

Johnson averaged 13 for the series. Steyn averages roughly that figure in both tests and odis for almost the whole of 2013.

With kallis gone now, though, Australia seem to have the better overall attack. But it doesn't matter too much imo... The two SA new ball bowlers are definitely better. People were saying England's attack of Anderson, Broad, Bresnan, Finn, Swann, was as good as SA because they covered all bases. But when SA toured England, it became clear which attack was far superior. It's the two opening bowlers that really matter. If those two fire regularly, it makes everyone's job easier and even guys like RP somehow get wickets

 

[hendrix]

Yeah it's a bit of a tough one; he moved when he was 12. I tend to look at 13 as the golden cut-off but there were photos of him on his twitter account draped in All Blacks gear that have since been removed, and I'm certainly not one to talk having never even been to England. You do wonder though: which international team would he support if he wasn't part of it? Indeed, which international team would he play for if he could live wherever he liked, play domestic cricket for whichever team he wanted to and get paid the same regardless? It takes a bit of the sanctity away from it all at times, but you can't argue that England deserve credit for developing players like Ballance and Stokes in their system. I somehow doubt they'd be what they are if they'd only played at "home".
.

When you're a NZ-er moving overseas you tend to over-exaggerate your NZ-ness. He might support the All Blacks, but that's a personal identity thing, not a nationalistic identity. I've found that expats are more likely to have a tribal tattoo. It's just a thing that happens.

The reality is that he's a product of the English school system. No way is a 12 year old - even a promising one - set out in terms of career path.

I don't really care which country he cares more for. He's a product of the English system and they deserve to have him.

Anyway, Corey Anderson and Jimmy Neesham are two of the most promising allrounders in the world, so it will be totally our fault if we end up desperately needing someone to fill their spot.

 

[SteveNZ]

Yeah it's a bit of a tough one; he moved when he was 12. I tend to look at 13 as the golden cut-off but there were photos of him on his twitter account draped in All Blacks gear that have since been removed, and I'm certainly not one to talk having never even been to England. You do wonder though: which international team would he support if he wasn't part of it? Indeed, which international team would he play for if he could live wherever he liked, play domestic cricket for whichever team he wanted to and get paid the same regardless? It takes a bit of the sanctity away from it all at times, but you can't argue that England deserve credit for developing players like Ballance and Stokes in their system. I somehow doubt they'd be what they are if they'd only played at "home".



I somehow doubt Asif will be back personally, but all reports suggest Amir will be straight back into domestic cricket after his ban; I'd be surprised if he never played for Pakistan again. He'd played the innocent young victim card pretty well.

Oh absolutely, England have total claim to him - he was developed through their system etc. Mine was just a bit of a pipe dream, a gee it would be nice to have a guy with his attitude batting at 5-6, bowling 140km/ph etc. If our support network is good enough, Anderson and Neesham can be those things as long as they a) stay fit b) get significant overs under their belts c) aren't pigeon holed as 'hitters'.

Sorry, Amir is who I meant. I suppose being the age he is, he'll fit in at some stage.