***Official*** West Indies in New Zealand 2013/14

[kyear2]

No problem!!..

NZ

Rutherford= a little rash to me!!..but can be dangerous if he gets going..i'd stick with him

Fultron= A weak link imo..has technical issues that he hasn't addressed from the england away series

Williamson= a good talent who always concerns me the longer he stays at the crease..needs to convert more 50s into 100s though

Taylor= having the time of his life right now..has batted very well indeed but the weakness of the attack he's facing leaves me wondering if this is just a one off?

Mccullum= got a good ton but i get the feeling he's on a downward curve?!!...might be totally wrong but he seems to be more cold than hot these days

Anderson= Not sure about him..on the face of it he looks tidy but he's finding ways to get himself out...his bowling is decent though.

Watling= an annoying little bugger..i could tell from the odi series we won in the caribbean last year that he'd be good for NZ..and he's in good form right now so you can't complain

Sodhi= i fear his batting more than his spin right now but he's still young so we'll see how he develops

Wagner= the weakest of the pacer attack imo..he's just a normal bowler who tries hard but no thrills.

Southee= he's stepped up big time over the last 12 months and is your best pacer by a margin imo

Boult= still learning and his performances in asia weren't that impressive but he's on fire now and that might take him to the next level.

WI

Powell= has the same average as Gayle did after 19 tests!!..difference is Powell has two more tons than Chris did, for me in terms of skill he's better than Darren Bravo but he needs to work on his mental game.

Edwards= he's not an opener but he's done very well here, averages around 40 in tests and after what happened in England to perform in these conditions is a very good surprise and he should be our regular number 3 now.

Darren Bravo= disappointed in the last test but that 218 in the first one was top class and he's clearly gonna be our biggest hope for the next ten years or so

Samuels= totally out of form..has probably been our best batsman for the last 12 months so i won't go overboard but he needs to get into gear sooner rather than later!!..when on form he's pure class though.

Chanderpaul= been fantastic for us..still can make runs but one gets the feeling next year will be his last

Deonarine= complete waste of space where batting is concerned!!..this may be his last series

Ramdin= has averaged 40 in the last year or so but doesn't contribute when we really need it imo!!..i'm keen to see another keeper emerge and get given a go to be honest

Sammy= i've said all i have to say about his fraud!!..there will be hell to pay if he's still captain and still in the team after this series

Best= waste of time and never was any good!!..time to let him go now

Gabriel= regressed since his debut in england and in the most part has had a nigtmare since his return to test cricket...needs to go and dominate at domestic level first before stepping up again..but needless to say his stock has fallen in recent months.

Shillingford= disappointed in the main..but i know these conditions are tough for him so i won't judge him too harshly.

pretty much agree with your entire W.I analysis.

 

[Hurricane]

pretty much agree with your entire W.I analysis.

It was an excellent all round analysis by WW.

 

[kyear2]

Oh yeah, and the big test for both sides will be the series later this year. If we dick the Windies here and they pull the same stunt when we tour, it will just confirm the status quo: lower ranked teams suck away from home. The West Indies need that win though if this goes down the gurgler, but I'm not counting my chooks in this series yet.

To me it's not just the weaker teams. India has looked lost thus far in S.A, England and Australia has swapped roles as they changed countries and England also struggled vs Pakistan in UAE. All of the teams seems to be struggling away from home. I actually had to ask a friend since when did cricket become like basket ball and American Football where home field meant so much.

 

[straw man]

In India, yes, NZ struggled. But they learned from that and then managed to put up over 400 against the best spin bowler in the world (Rangana Herath) and win a test in SL.

I wouldn't say that they struggled in Bangladesh. They were never shot out for below par scores.

Love your optimism but think you and Flem are getting a wee bit ahead of yourself here - that SL win was built on Williamson and Taylor, who are the two guys in the side to have proven they play spin adequately by international standards. Watling and Anderson haven't proven the same by any stretch and neither has anyone else bar Vettori.

Also tend to think in SL and Bangladesh the pitches give kind-of a slower damp turn, which some of our batsmen have learned to negotiate, but the West Indies pitches play a little different again (not that I've seen much cricket in WI in recent years tbh). Anyway we should go into the next tour of the West Indies in much better shape than last time... but it'll still be a huge challenge for our batting against Narine and Shillingford.

 

[WindieWeathers]

In India, yes, NZ struggled. But they learned from that and then managed to put up over 400 against the best spin bowler in the world (Rangana Herath) and win a test in SL.

I wouldn't say that they struggled in Bangladesh. They were never shot out for below par scores.

But Hereth did murder NZ in the first test though didn't he? and i'm a believer that there's only so much one decent spinner can do!!..as we saw with Shilly in india!!..he clearly had their top order nervous but there was no-one there to support him!!..

And in BD the bottom order often came to the rescue!!..especially Sodhi.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

To me they struggled a little in Bangledash!!..

?

Bang v NZ
1st test New Zealand 469 and 287/7d;
2nd test New Zealand 437

India v WI
1st test West Indies 234 and 168
2nd test West Indies 182 and 187

 

[Flem274*]

I'm not expecting a win in the West Indies ftr - their batsmen will be much better at home, just like familliar conditions often hide the flaws of some of our lesser batsmen. We don't have a test standard wicket taking spinner either to take advantage of the conditions. The best we can hope for is Vettori keeping the pressure on and chipping away, but any victory will be built on the pacers as ever.

 

[Flem274*]

And in BD the bottom order often came to the rescue!!..especially Sodhi.

The lower order nailed the coffin shut. The batsmen did the hard stuff.

Our bowling left a lot to be desired in those conditions no question, because we fed them a diet of poor spin and Bracewell trying to hit blokes on a slow low pitch.

 

[hendrix]

I'm not expecting a win in the West Indies ftr

I am. Anything less than outright win and I'll be very disappointed.

 

[Zinzan]

.when we won six tests in a row it was down to individual brilliance by our best players such as Roach, Rampaul, Chanders, Bravo, Samuels, Narine etc that got us through. We won DESPITE of Sammy..not because of him...but the tougher the conditions you play in the more his incompetence stands out..and you can't win tests with ten players for long.

To be fair, wasn't the Windies winning those 6 tests in a row more a function of their weak opposition more than any other factor? I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it NZ, Bang & Zim that they defeated for those 6 wins?

 

[hendrix]

But Hereth did murder NZ in the first test though didn't he? and i'm a believer that there's only so much one decent spinner can do!!..as we saw with Shilly in india!!..he clearly had their top order nervous but there was no-one there to support him!!..

And in BD the bottom order often came to the rescue!!..especially Sodhi.

Yeah I don't disagree with any of this but I do think improvements have been made. And I don't think Shillingford and Narine are as good as Ojha and Ashwin. But we'll see.

 

[Zinzan]

I'm not expecting a win in the West Indies ftr - their batsmen will be much better at home, just like familliar conditions often hide the flaws of some of our lesser batsmen. We don't have a test standard wicket taking spinner either to take advantage of the conditions. The best we can hope for is Vettori keeping the pressure on and chipping away, but any victory will be built on the pacers as ever.

Have to disagree, I genuinely give us a chance in that return series if we continue to get more consistent with the bat. If there's one side (Zim & Bang aside) that we could defeat in their conditions, it's the Windies for mine. I get they're no pushover, but relatively speaking, I give us a decent shot. Time will tell.

 

[Zinzan]

It's easy to forget the Windies have had most of the luck this series to date; winning both tosses, the rain saving them with 30 runs needed in Dunedin, the Bravo non-dismissal at a crucial time, and in spite of all this NZ have totally dominated them with both bat and ball.

 

[Zinzan]

..and when you also have Roach and Rampaul to deal with!!..who imo are every bit as effective as Southee and Boult!!..

Then again, you've admitted your bias before, so would be interesting what neutrals think about that statement

 

[Athlai]

Put it to the polls!

 

[Zinzan]

^ Can't be arsed, but you can

 

[straw man]

Jeez you guys are feeling bullish today. Personally I think that, even if we took this current sub-par Windies XI, if we then began a three match test series in the West Indies starting tomorrow and the only change WI made was to sub in Narine, we would not be favourites in my mind.

Then add in Gayle, who has a mental hold on us despite unflattering test returns recently, plus a better fast bowler or two...

For me this is all down to our batting; our bowling has made genuine strides forward (even if not in the spin department) but I take the runs in the last 12 months scored on flat home pitches, or against poor attacks, or on flat Bangladesh pitches... with a large grain of salt.

 

[Flem274*]

I think we can do it, but I'm not expecting it. We've had plenty of false dawns before.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I rate both Rampaul and Roach, but they're both very much unproven. Rampaul is a solid outswing bowler but he's older and clearly doesn't have much more potential to tap into from what he's already shown. Roach is a different matter and has quite a high ceiling but needs to play plenty more cricket.

 

[Zinzan]

Jeez you guys are feeling bullish today.

.

Not sure about bullish champ, I simply said to Flem that I'd give us a decent chance. With the prospect of having Taylor and Williamson (circa 2013) and Ryder, who are all very good players of spin, I think we'll give a much better showing than the winter 2012 tour.