MJ Clarke - numero uno Test batsman?

[Spikey]

i will forever love ab because of his century at perth in 2012, aka the most predictable century ever

 

[benchmark00]

Nah I've said this for a while tbh

EDIT: Not sure where this idea that Amla doesn't have the same ability to play under pressure as Clarke comes from, though? Okay sure he hasn't played as many balls-to-the-wall 3/30 knocks as Clarke but that's more because that SA are rarely ever 3/30.

Well you just answered your question.

Comparing the two, you can't definitively say which one is better at the minute. It's splitting hairs. Clarke has rescued Australia many times, Amla not as much, not that it's Amla's fault, but it's inherently possible that Amla doesn't feel as much pressure as Clarke because Amla knows if he fails there's still a chance of a good score. For me that's the difference.

If you swapped the two and Amla did what Clarke has done, I'd say he was better. But he hasn't, but that's not to say he wouldn't be able to.

 

[Xuhaib]

Sanga is the worst example possible if you want to pull down another player for not doing well away. Sanga averages in some countries : 30 in England, 36.5 in India, 35 in SA, 34 in West Indies. Outside of the subcontinent he averages 40 if you exclude Zimbabwe. Clarke's away average doesn't look as bad now does it? As for AB, he is just a downhill skier in both ODIs and tests. There was a reason he was MoM in two dead rubbers against Pakistan in the 8 ODIs that were played recently and went AWOL in the other games generally. In the series in 2010 that India won 2-1 he scored a 100 in a hopeless cause in the 2nd ODI when the match was gone and then another 100 in the dead rubber then against India C. He is a bit of a choker in ICC tournaments. In tests also there is a similar pattern I still remember the test series against India...smashed a 200 in the first test last time when the top order had put up about 2000 runs, failed miserably in the next game when he was needed. Scored a 200 against Pak after being dropped a million times too. Very talented player but he cannot play under pressure. Amla is the only real comparison to Clarke and even doesn't have nearly the same ability to play under pressure as Clarke does.

Have not seen Sanga stats in detail if the stats you mention are true then I guess he goes in the same boat as Clarke, Mahela, and Mo Yo. It comes as a surprise to me as a few years back I remember him gunning it against the likes of Bond and Lee in their own conditions.

With AB i am a bit biased as he's my favorite batsman to watch though I don;t think he is a soft situation bully as you imply.

 

[Spark]

33 (220)

That doesn't really contradict my main contention with putting ABdV up top, though, which is that his numbers - which are basically the justification for doing so - are not really a good reflection of how well he has/is batting in comparison to Amla/Clarke/Sanga etc.

 

[Jono]

That doesn't really contradict my main contention with putting ABdV up top, though, which is that his numbers - which are basically the justification for doing so - are not really a good reflection of how well he has/is batting in comparison to Amla/Clarke/Sanga etc.

Nah not arguing he should be #1. How can a bloke who can dominate an attack and then play a 33 (220) and is arguably best fielder in the world (let's forget his keeping ability) only just make a world XI though?

Can't think of too many better players than him. Amla and Clarke yep. Don't even remember if Sanga still plays cricket...

 

[Spark]

Nah not arguing he should be #1. How can a bloke who can dominate an attack and then play a 33 (220) and is arguably best fielder in the world (let's forget his keeping ability) only just make a world XI though?

Can't think of many better players than him.

Well, I mean, assuming you don't have him open, you only need to think of four...

 

[Prince EWS]

33 (220)

He's obviously played some very good, important innings; it's a bit of a myth that he literally hasn't played any. I think the significance given to the match situation of knocks, particularly after the fact, is somewhat over-stated and makes too much of coincidences anyway, but even so I think it'd be naive to suggest that de Villiers's numbers aren't somewhat inflated compared to Clarke/Amla/Sangakarra by having easier batting conditions when he arrives at the wicket. I don't really have him in contention for my World XI unless I wanted to dump Prior for his rubbish recent form (and tbf it's gone on long enough for me to have to start thinking about that) and this has been true for as long as I can remember really. In fact I rate him higher now than I have at any other point of his career really.

 

[Jassy]

Have not seen Sanga stats in detail if the stats you mention are true then I guess he goes in the same boat as Clarke, Mahela, and Mo Yo. It comes as a surprise to me as a few years back I remember him gunning it against the likes of Bond and Lee in their own conditions.

With AB i am a bit biased as he's my favorite batsman to watch though I don;t think he is a soft situation bully as you imply.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Here you go, you can check. He may have "gunned down" Bond and Lee in their own conditions a couple of times but the stats do not lie. Phil Hughes got 2 centuries in 1 game against Steyn and Morkel in SA, Asad Shafiq scored a century in SA, Azhar Mahmood battered Donald and Pollock in SA on multiple occasions, the much maligned Samraweera scored 2 centuries when SL last played in SA...the list goes on and on. You can pull out a handful of innings for just about any one. As the numbers show, he just hasn't been as good away from home and especially away from the subcontinent just hasn't been as good. Beat up on Pakistan in a lot of 700 vs 600 games but otherwise he has been strictly in the good category rather than great. AB's soft situation thing is more debatable but in my mind there is no doubt.

 

[Spark]

Yeah look AB is definitely a gun bat and a freakish fielder and would walk blindfolded into any middle order in the world right now, and probably be the best batsman in the vast majority of them - 2nd best otherwise. But we're comparing him to a seriously high standard so little details like these matter.

 

[Jassy]

Also, as they are so close, another point in Clarke's favour vis a vis Amla is that Clarke has tamed Steyn, Philander and Morkel - unarguably the best bowling attack in the world. Not Amla's fault the he is on the same side as them but when two batsmen are close and one has succeeded against the best attack in the world then that definitely should be a talking point IMO.

 

[akilana]

Also, as they are so close, another point in Clarke's favour vis a vis Amla is that Clarke has tamed Steyn, Philander and Morkel - unarguably the best bowling attack in the world. Not Amla's fault the he is on the same side as them but when two batsmen are close and one has succeeded against the best attack in the world then that definitely should be a talking point IMO.

So has Amla. He tamed England, who are arguably as good an attack as SA in their backyard. He also tamed the Australian and Indian attacks in their countries. Clarke is a beast in Australia but away from home, his scores follow a pattern -- a hundred followed by lot of failures. For me, Amla is easily the better batsman.

 

[Jassy]

So has Amla. He tamed England, who are arguably as good an attack as SA in their backyard. He also tamed the Australian and Indian attacks in their countries. Clarke is a beast in Australia but away from home, his scores follow a pattern -- a hundred followed by lot of failures. For me, Amla is easily the better batsman.

Well, on overall away average Amla beats Clarke, no arguments there, but he has played fewer matches and I'd wager that will come down soon. If you look at it country wise, there's not much in it. Clarke beats Amla in Aus, NZ, SL, WI; Amla wins in SA, England, India. Clarke hasn't played in Pakistan/UAE yet and Amla has, so didn't count that. I struggle to see where the great difference is....overall avg yes, but it will even out when Amla plays another 15-20 matches away from home.

 

[akilana]

as much chance to improve.

 

[grecian]

I did my normal thing when I think it's close, go for the one that's not Australian.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Martin Crowe: Why do we choose cricket? | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Or in cricket terms he is the best batsman on the planet.-Martin Crowe

Its official guys

 

[Maximas]

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Here you go, you can check. He may have "gunned down" Bond and Lee in their own conditions a couple of times but the stats do not lie. Phil Hughes got 2 centuries in 1 game against Steyn and Morkel in SA, Asad Shafiq scored a century in SA, Azhar Mahmood battered Donald and Pollock in SA on multiple occasions, the much maligned Samraweera scored 2 centuries when SL last played in SA...the list goes on and on. You can pull out a handful of innings for just about any one. As the numbers show, he just hasn't been as good away from home and especially away from the subcontinent just hasn't been as good. Beat up on Pakistan in a lot of 700 vs 600 games but otherwise he has been strictly in the good category rather than great. AB's soft situation thing is more debatable but in my mind there is no doubt.

He does average 60 in Oceania though, which I would say is very solid for a subcontinent batsman, especially given he played against some very good attacks in Australia and some fairly green pitches at times. I think with an average of almost 57 it's hard to make an argument that Sanga isn't one of the great batsmen and is instead merely a 'good' one, it's not like SL is an easy place to bat all the time either.

 

[Prince EWS]

Oceania.

Yessssssss

 

[OverratedSanity]

He does average 60 in Oceania though, which I would say is very solid for a subcontinent batsman, especially given he played against some very good attacks in Australia and some fairly green pitches at times. I think with an average of almost 57 it's hard to make an argument that Sanga isn't one of the great batsmen and is instead merely a 'good' one, it's not like SL is an easy place to bat all the time either.

Yeah Sanga's played some amazing innings overseas and comparing him with Mahela is very harsh. I especially think his hundred in SA recently which led to a SL win was a really good innings against a tough attack.
And that 150 odd he got against Bond on a juicy pitch was sensational too.

Overall though his overseas record does bother me. I hope he does well in places like West indies ( which shouldn't be tough) and England ( if he gets another chance) because I want to rate him as high as Kallis and Dravid but just knowing that he hasn't done too well in several countries annoys me. Everyone has one or to bogey countries which can be brushed aside as bad luck but he has too many

 

[Maximas]

He averages 47 away from home overall though, it's certain series' he's been out of form or whatever - not that he isn't good enough away from home. He will get another chance in early season England next year (barring injury) and we'll get another chance to see him play there and how he deals with it, tbh averaging mid thirties in a few countries isn't too bad IMO

 

[Spark]

Idk what to make of away records in WI. Those pitches are so ****ty that it almost levels everyone out.