*Official* Second Test at the Adelaide Oval

[MW1304]

Spin already. Yay.

Not a good sign when you're pretty down on all aspects of your team after an hour of play on the first day. The selection just seems to be succumbing to Australia's advantages.

 

[benchmark00]

Pitch looks like Benchmark00's dress sense. A bit tacky.

 

[ajdude]

Tell you what we get on Ch9's free coverage? Piss ordinary standard definition

 

[Spark]

this is a ****ing pain

 

[JontyPanesar]

No Mike Hussey, overspin does not create drift! It produces dip!

(unless you're trying to bowl the ball across the batsman)

 

[MW1304]

Where y'at stephen, thought it was fairly set?

 

[benchmark00]

No Mike Hussey, overspin does not create drift! It produces dip!

(unless you're trying to bowl the ball across the batsman)

Well, I'm not one to side with Mike Hussey a lot of the time, but it kinda does. The overspin he's talking about is just having the seam in a position which is pointed to leg slip (for a right hander). You're right in saying that the revs would produce the drift, but you can't drift it unless you have the ball rotating like that.

 

[Burgey]

Lol at Botham suggesting the Enlgand bowlers would be having a shower during this break.

 

[Burgey]

Or any break for that matter.

Early lunch taken.

 

[JontyPanesar]

Well, I'm not one to side with Mike Hussey a lot of the time, but it kinda does. The overspin he's talking about is just having the seam in a position which is pointed to leg slip (for a right hander). You're right in saying that the revs would produce the drift, but you can't drift it unless you have the ball rotating like that.

Don't mistake me for saying its pure revs that leads to drift, because that's wrong too. Orientation of the ball always matters.


But that's precisely not the orientation of the ball Graeme Swann uses to produce drift. He undercuts the ball by tilting the seam and getting the ball to rotate somewhat like a flying saucer. That was not what Graeme Swann was doing while Mike Hussey was talking.

Two ways to get drift:
1. Undercut the ball, orient the spin so that the ball comes out at least somewhat like a flying saucer
2. Lots of sidespin but going across a batsman instead of wicket to wicket (overspin/backspin along the width of the pitch).

 

[Spark]

Well that was one of the more pedestrian sessions of cricket you'll see

 

[Burgey]

Right now, pedestrian works for us

 

[Tom Halsey]

Well, I'm not one to side with Mike Hussey a lot of the time, but it kinda does. The overspin he's talking about is just having the seam in a position which is pointed to leg slip (for a right hander). You're right in saying that the revs would produce the drift, but you can't drift it unless you have the ball rotating like that.

Didn't hear what Hussey said so maybe he said something he didn't mean, but Jonty is definitely right. Drift is purely Magnus Effect, and as far as Magnus Effect goes overspin causes the ball to dip, not move sideways. Obviously other things can make the ball move sideways (wind, even what side of the ball the shiny side is on etc) but they're not technically drift.

 

[Burgey]

I saw Magnus play a dozen times and tbh he wasn't a very good spinner at all.

 

[benchmark00]

Don't mistake me for saying its pure revs that leads to drift, because that's wrong too. Orientation of the ball always matters.


But that's precisely not the orientation of the ball Graeme Swann uses to produce drift. He undercuts the ball by tilting the seam and getting the ball to rotate somewhat like a flying saucer. That was not what Graeme Swann was doing while Mike Hussey was talking.

Two ways to get drift:
1. Undercut the ball, orient the spin so that the ball comes out at least somewhat like a flying saucer
2. Lots of sidespin but going across a batsman instead of wicket to wicket (overspin/backspin along the width of the pitch).

No this is not true. Graeme Swann doesn't use the UFO ball to produce drift, although it can wobble if the exact shape is kept, he uses it as a slider so when it hits the pitch it skids.

Swann's lack of overspin is overstated because it's compared to Lyon who does it massively. Swann doesn't deliberately try and deliver every ball with heaps of side spin, it's just that his action is conducive for that to occur at times. The UFO ball is more likely to move up and down from its course than it is from side to side.

 

[benchmark00]

Didn't hear what Hussey said so maybe he said something he didn't mean, but Jonty is definitely right. Drift is purely Magnus Effect, and as far as Magnus Effect goes overspin causes the ball to dip, not move sideways. Obviously other things can make the ball move sideways (wind, even what side of the ball the shiny side is on etc) but they're not technically drift.

Again, this is not correct.

The same reason why a swing bowlers ball will swing is the same reason a spin bowlers ball will drift, with the air flying over the smooth sides of the ball. If the seam is upright or tilted to one side slightly, but remains that way throughout the ball will move accordingly.

 

[mintykip]

I hope that stuff Warne was saying about England going out and buying a load of extra protection before this test is a load of crap. Talk about sending a message to the opposition.

 

[Spark]

Right now, pedestrian works for us

I'll be a little happier if we get to 1/100.

 

[JontyPanesar]

No this is not true. Graeme Swann doesn't use the UFO ball to produce drift, although it can wobble if the exact shape is kept, he uses it as a slider so when it hits the pitch it skids.

Swann's lack of overspin is overstated because it's compared to Lyon who does it massively. Swann doesn't deliberately try and deliver every ball with heaps of side spin, it's just that his action is conducive for that to occur at times. The UFO ball is more likely to move up and down from its course than it is from side to side.

I specifically said somewhat because it doesn't need to look totally like a flying saucer. It's usually a combination of sidespin and undercut. Swann is always mixing the amount of sidespin and undercut on nearly all of his deliveries. That's almost precisely why he says he's not sure which will turn and which will slide on. There's at least a bit of both on every delivery. There's usually a little bit of overspin too but nothing dramatic really.

And Lyon doesn't get a ton of overspin either. He gets a little dip, a little drift and a little turn, and varies the combination of all three with his orientation, but he doesn't have a vicious top spinner, undercutter, or off-break. Guys who really get overspin: Murali, Harbhajan, Shillingford and most recently Ashwin. Ashwin has a genuine topspinner that's almost pure overspin with a little sidespin

 

[JontyPanesar]

Again, this is not correct.

The same reason why a swing bowlers ball will swing is the same reason a spin bowlers ball will drift, with the air flying over the smooth sides of the ball. If the seam is upright or tilted to one side slightly, but remains that way throughout the ball will move accordingly.

The Magnus effect is far more powerful than smooth v. rough side when a spinner is bowling. There's just not enough friction between air and ball when the ball is traveling at such a slow speed and especially on the part of the ball that is not rotating.

It's the part of the ball that's really rotating when the ball is spun that creates drift or dip because of the extra friction created by revolutions. Which would be the magnus effect