Trott leaves tour

[four_or_six]

Maybe in some ways the ECB manage it so well that the players are able to keep going at all, and then you get this situation? Dunno.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Yeah but even if you're managing it well in that sense, there is still (evidently) the risk of it all becoming too much and I just think this is the sort of thing you don't mess around with.

 

[Red]

Dave Warners comments have no bearing on this. If you seriously think anything that bloke said can 'give' someone depression or acute stress, you seriously misunderstand the illnesses.

Great credit to Trotty for doing the right thing, hope he feels better soon.

I know a fair bit about this, and I know how damaging comments like this can be where there are already mental health issues. Comments, seemingly innocuous, can tip someone over the edge.

 

[social]

God you just know what's going to happen in the media about all of this.

By Thursday a former Australian player will have accused Trott of being weak. At least one radio show host will do the same, though don't be surprised if it's more. Clueless media personalities - probably on a morning or daytime talk show - will try to pin the blame on David Warner while also calling for all sledging to be banned because think of the children. And most importantly, your dumb mates on Facebook that you haven't seen since high school will praise Warner's chat and insinuate that Jonathan enjoys the company of men.

Watched a bit of Sportsfan (?) last night and Stuart Clark was one of the presenters.

When asked about Trott, he replied "does anyone seriously think he would be on a plane if he had scored a hundred yesterday?'

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I do as well. As soon as we find 2 better openers I'll demand he stand down.

Why are you apologising for something you didn't say?

As for Trott, really sad to see him go like this. Always felt he was a great batsman and liked him even more when he clashed with the Jacket.

Also makes me admire Tendulkar even more. Did it for 20 odd years under the expectations of so many.

 

[social]

Obv Warner didn't intend for this to happen.

But, questioning a guy's courage and calling him "scared" and "weak" in a public forum is uncalled for, and inappropriate.

Warner needs to grow up. He could have said any number of things like "A couple of the Poms looked pretty scared of MJ today" or "I don't think they can handle MJ's pace" but to single Trott out as weak and scared is a low call imo.

Warner said no such thing

Papers like the Daily Mail took his words and re-arranged them in a way that was more headline worthy

Comments by Vaughan ("Jonathan Trott’s second innings at the Gabba was among the worst I have seen from an England No 3") and Boycott ("Trott's innings: what can I say that is printable?") were far more personal

 

[the big bambino]

Why are you apologising for something you didn't say?

Maybe Warner gets too much trash thrown at him. But he represents his country and frankly he sometimes embarrases me and it seems other Aussies too.

 

[Hurricane]

I certainly don't want a flame fight. I did take your comment as a generalisation and I think you can see why I did. Our cricketers (and crowds) have a rep for sure. From my perspective I've never seen any other side apologise for OTT behaviour either. Whether it be directed at Greg Matthews or when India literally got in Clarke's face in Perth.

CA is sensitive to criticism and if it the issue became political they would force Warner to apologise. But he hasn't been cited or even blamed for Trott's condition so I can see why they don't think an apology is necessary. I agree, though, that Warner's comments were uncalled for. It wasn't sledging but ridicule. I too would be pleased if he apologised for them. You couldn't help notice the proximity of his remarks and Trott's decn to leave the tour. Hopefully he'd regret that rather thinking one down ten to go.

As an Australian I apoliogise for David Warner.

I do as well. As soon as we find 2 better openers I'll demand he stand down.

All these posts are well thought through and impress me greatly (for what that is worth) and they may mean more to me than if Warner had apologized himself. I will proceeed with my donation based on them when I get home tonight.

Thanks lads.

 

[Ausage]

Watched a bit of Sportsfan (?) last night and Stuart Clark was one of the presenters.

When asked about Trott, he replied "does anyone seriously think he would be on a plane if he had scored a hundred yesterday?'

While it's a fairly callous comment given the situation, any trigger that the bloke has suffered to tip him over the edge probably wouldn't have happened if he was on a high after a fantastic performance. So no, he probably wouldn't be on a plane today, but that shouldn't be an underhanded way of dismissing the problem (which it sounds like Clark was doing).

More to the point, his performance in this test was clearly effected by his mentality. He was never going to score a hundred with his mind not 100%.

 

[Burgey]

Very sad situation for Trott and his family, friends and team mates to have to deal with. I hope he gets through it and finds whatever makes him appy in life, whether it be a return to cricket or anything else he wants to turn his hand to.

 

[NZTailender]

As someone with a stress related illness/disorder, I feel like commenting, even though it's a bit of speculation. The stress illness will have been developing over years and years, not off the back of one assholes attempt at sledging. If there was anything that pushed Trott over the edge, IMO, it will be that he's perceived to have let the whole team down, that entire loss was his fault. Thing about this kinda stuff is the distorted thinking that happens that defies rationality. You could be presented with 1+1 and come up with -57. And if there are some basis of fact in what you're doubting, it becomes 100 times worse - especially if that's backed up by other people putting the boot in. Then, the exaggerated version of events that exist in your mind become validated, even if it's not entirely true. The issue snowballs, and eventually you hit a breaking point. Also, it never leaves you. Where some players might be able to leave sledging or bad performances on the field and be able to regroup off it, chances are it'd distort the thinking more for those with a stress illness. Remember this is also physiological and not just mental. Muscles are tense all the time. Breathing is affected. You lose sleep. And when things are getting bad you could very well have a panic attack (which makes you feel as though you're about to die). What am I getting at? Nothing new: Trott has done amazingly well to carry himself this far. He must be emotionally exhausted. I synpathise.

As for Warner's comments, someone should tell him that there's a difference between calling someone a poor batsman and calling them a poor human being (not that those were his exact words). Anyone who thinks the latter is fair game in sport and that it's all part and parcel needs to have their own head examined IMO. When did a leisurely pursuit get so serious?

 

[zaremba]

Obv Warner didn't intend for this to happen.

But, questioning a guy's courage and calling him "scared" and "weak" in a public forum is uncalled for, and inappropriate.

Warner needs to grow up ... to single Trott out as weak and scared is a low call imo.

Warner said no such thing

He did. It's on YouTube; you can watch it yourself:

"it does look as though they’ve got scared eyes at the moment, I mean the way Trotty got out today was pretty poor and pretty weak, obviously there’s a weakness there..."

You really think he's not saying that Trott was weak and scared? You're kidding yourself.

And to underline the point:

"we've seen him work hard in the nets on the short ball, but try and face a 150 kmh short ball, the way it goes, he'll probably try and back away"

Now I'm not saying it's the crime of the century, but let's not pretend he didn't say it.

 

[benchmark00]

Can we just say right now, Warner did not call Trott weak. He said his dismissal was weak (which I'm sorry to say was) and that he looked at bit scared of Mitchell Johnson's pace (which, I'm sorry to say, he did).

Now, as I said at the time, Warner's comments were unnecessary because it's an attack from one professional to another, which is disrespectful, and furthermore he should just shut up and let his on field talents do the talking. But what he said wasn't a personal attack on Trott as a person, just on his exhibition of batting on display in the first test.

 

[benchmark00]

I mean to draw such a long bow is silly. It would be like saying if I come out and say Sureh Raina has a weakness against the short ball does that mean I think he's a weak person? Come on.

 

[Jono]

Sorry Benchy, what are you arguing against? The idea that Warner caused Trott's illness? No doubt, I agree that Warner did not cause Trott's stress related illness. But its possible that Warner's comments, which were taken out of context and blown up in the media, may have exacerbated the stress/strain that Trott may have been under. By that I don't mean what Warner said, or even Warner himself, but the whole media scrutiny on Trott and his mental toughness etc.

Of course it may have had absolutely no impact whatsoever so it is all speculation. But I don't think it is unreasonable to state that the whole event (i.e. not just what Warner said, but the scrutiny that was on Trott from the media and commentators etc.) may not have helped.

Truth is we don't know at all. And we don't even know if Trott has a mental illness, as opposed to just going through a highly stressful time (although one sometimes leads to another). But I think its fair to say that the last 3-4 days wouldn't have exactly helped Trott's mental state.

Do you agree?

 

[TNT]

Can we just say right now, Warner did not call Trott weak. He said his dismissal was weak (which I'm sorry to say was) and that he looked at bit scared of Mitchell Johnson's pace (which, I'm sorry to say, he did).

Now, as I said at the time, Warner's comments were unnecessary because it's an attack from one professional to another, which is disrespectful, and furthermore he should just shut up and let his on field talents do the talking. But what he said wasn't a personal attack on Trott as a person, just on his exhibition of batting on display in the first test.

I think people that are trying to associate Warner with Trotts return to England just lack knowledge about Trotts problem in general and using it to take shots at Warner. That in itself is probably in poorer taste than what Warner did. Using Trotts unfortunate problem to promote your own dislike for Warner shows a complete lack of understanding of Trotts condition and is in very bad taste. Trotts mental condition is being used inappropriately as a sledging tool against Warner, this is not what is going to help Trott but only make it worse because the real problem is being clouded by stuff that has nothing to do with his condition.

 

[benchmark00]

Sorry Benchy, what are you arguing against? The idea that Warner caused Trott's illness? No doubt, I agree that Warner did not cause Trott's stress related illness. But its possible that Warner's comments, which were taken out of context and blown up in the media, may have exacerbated the stress/strain that Trott may have been under. By that I don't mean what Warner said, or even Warner himself, but the whole media scrutiny on Trott and his mental toughness etc.

Of course it may have had absolutely no impact whatsoever so it is all speculation. But I don't think it is unreasonable to state that the whole event (i.e. not just what Warner said, but the scrutiny that was on Trott from the media and commentators etc.) may not have helped.

Truth is we don't know at all. And we don't even know if Trott has a mental illness, as opposed to just going through a highly stressful time (although one sometimes leads to another). But I think its fair to say that the last 3-4 days wouldn't have exactly helped Trott's mental state.

Do you agree?

Is this related to my posts I made 20 seconds ago? Because I'm not talking about that at all.

I'm arguing against the assertion that Warner attacked Trott personally and called him weak etc. Warner was attacking Trott's cricketing deficiencies and was not commenting on him as a person. Simple.

 

[ganeshran]

By all accounts, Warner had no idea about Trott's illness. He was trying to get into the heads of the opposition which is a common tactic in cricket nowadays, so blaming him for playing a part in Trott's departure is a tad unfair

 

[hendrix]

Completely agree with Benchmark here. Struggling to see what the fuss is about.
He was in poor form and not handling Johnson's pace well. I have no idea what's wrong with Warner stating that.
It would be like saying "Michael Clarke is a good batsman so we have that in our favour". It's not an attack on Trott he's just talking about form and potential targets.

Warner's an idiot but for other reasons.

 

[zaremba]

Had he simply said "Trotty's got a weakness against the short ball", no-one would have thought he was being quite such a dick. But he didn't say that. As Monk says, he publicly questioned Trott's courage, and suggested he was weak and scared. I find it difficult to see how anyone could watch that interview and seriously think otherwise.