The argument against Donald

[OverratedSanity]

Am offshoot of a comment from another thread, where I read that Donald is overrated on CW

I can safely say he is one of the greatest bowlers I've ever seen and one of the finest of the 90s greats, and can say with even more safety that he is my favourite bowler if all time along with Waqar. He has a magnificent statistical record and succeeded all over the world. So to hear that he's overrated was surprising to me as I've always thought of him as someone who is criminally overlooked when people make those imaginary ATG XIs.

What's the argument against him then?

 

[ankitj]

There ain't no argument against Donald, except that he is not called Ambrose.

Just love Donald to bits. That ***y bowling action...



EDIT: Why the images aren't retrieved in full size on this site these days?

 

[grecian]

It's only me that said he was over-rated and I'm a well-known idjit

 

[smash84]

There ain't no argument against Donald, except that he is not called Ambrose.

Just love Donald to bits. That ***y bowling action...

EDIT: Why the images aren't retrieved in full size on this site these days?

you need to uncheck at the bottom of the window that allows you to insert image url

 

[fredfertang]

What's the argument against him then?

Based on what I've been reading of late in CC I would think the suggestion he was a better bowler than Ajit Agarkar

 

[BoyBrumby]

Wasn't his record against ver crims (clearly the best side throughout his career) a little ordinary?

 

[Burgey]

He was a fine bowler, but he was a bit soft in the head IMO. Lacked a bit of killer when things went agin him. Jeez he was quick though.

 

[robelinda]

Was found wanting against Australia on many occasions. What made McGrath so awesome was when he stepped up against the best team of the era, West Indies, and decimated them right from the start. Donald had some decent spells vs Australia, but was found wanting on a lot of occasions. No doubt, an amazing bowler, ALWAYS loved watching him bowl.

 

[robelinda]

 

[robelinda]

 

[watson]

Was found wanting against Australia on many occasions. What made McGrath so awesome was when he stepped up against the best team of the era, West Indies, and decimated them right from the start. Donald had some decent spells vs Australia, but was found wanting on a lot of occasions. No doubt, an amazing bowler, ALWAYS loved watching him bowl

Was found wanting against Australia on some occasions. What made McGrath so awesome was that he was skillfull and ruthless enough to capitalise on a team in steep decline, which of course was the West Indies, and 'decimated' them right from the start. Donald had some decent spells vs Australia, but he was occasionally found wanting, especially toward the end of his career. No doubt, an amazing bowler, ALWAYS loved watching him bowl

 

[salman85]

Exciting player to watch, but the point you bring up about him being regularly overlooked in those ATG teams is interesting.I think one of the reasons why Donald gets overlooked is because of the sheer competition, not the lack of ability on his part.Bowlers like Marshall, Imran, Lillee,Mcgrath, Ambrose, Wasim will always be at a level higher than that of Donald's.Also, Donald was a relative late entrant on the test arena because of South Africa's exile. He was 26 if i'm not wrong. Who knows what could have happened had he made his debut earlier and added those 4-5 years to his career.

 

[Top_Cat]

Largely in line with Burg**** on this one; not a lot wrong with him in general but he was only occasionally good against Australia. Hard to intimidate blokes like the Waughs, Slater, Taylor, etc. who were able to resist the initial tough periods would then find it quite a bit easier against him. Remember there being an analysis of Donald's speeds by ball and by spell and it was incredible how quickly his pace would drop even in the same over in his early years (150Km/h+ at ball 1, <130Km/h by ball 6 from memory). Also against him was that he looked worse in his own backyard than in Australia, unlike against other good teams, furthering the perception he bottled it when under the pump.

It's what make Steyn already a better bowler, for mine; the only easy spell you get from him all day is when he's injured/dead. Not to say Donald is rubbish, again he's one of the best, but Steyn's that little bit better for mine.

 

[andyc]

EDIT: Why the images aren't retrieved in full size on this site these days?

Use

 

[Howe_zat]

Was found wanting against Australia on many occasions. What made McGrath so awesome was when he stepped up against the best team of the era, West Indies, and decimated them right from the start. Donald had some decent spells vs Australia, but was found wanting on a lot of occasions. No doubt, an amazing bowler, ALWAYS loved watching him bowl.

Weren't those the days where Lara had to carry the side? Bit of a far cry from the batting lineups of 10 years previously. You'd think during McGrath's career the best batting sides would be South Africa and India at home.

 

[kyear2]

Absolutely love Donald and actually believe that Donald is quite underrated and besides probably a small handful of about four pacers, that Donald is arguably as good or better than any fast bowler to have played the game.

 

[watson]

Allan Donald 1993-1998 V AUS
Tests = 11
Wickets = 48
Ave = 27.85
SR = 58.0
5w = 2
10w =0

The above figures were compiled over 4 series;

SA in AUS 1993/94
Tests = 3
13 Wickets at 28.69

AUS in SA 1993/94
Tests = 3
12 Wickets at 35.41

AUS in SA 1996/97
Tests = 3
11 Wickets at 29.54

SA in AUS 1997/98
Tests = 2
12 Wickets at 17.83

In 2001 and 2002 he did have a miserable time against Australia;

SA in AUS 2001/02
Tests = 2
4 Wickets at 59.60

AUS in SA 2002
Tests = 1
1 Wicket at 72.0

However, by 2001 Donald was close to retirement and was well below his normal fitness levels, and in 2002 he did actually retire while playing against Australian. So it would be unfair to rate a bowler at the point of retirement.

Therefore, if we really want to rate Donald properly against Australia then we really have to decide what to make of 48 Wickets at 27.85 between 1993 and 1998? Against a powerful batting line-up with more than a few potential ATG batsman, I reckon that they are very good figures overall.

 

[smash84]

Absolutely love Donald and actually (wrongly) believe that Donald is quite underrated and besides probably a small handful of about four(teen) pacers, that Donald is arguably as good or better than any fast bowler to have played the game.

fixed

 

[kyear2]

Lol.

 

[watson]

Absolutely love Donald and actually believe that Donald is quite underrated and besides probably a small handful of about four pacers, that Donald is arguably as good or better than any fast bowler to have played the game.

Allan Donald was basically a South African version of Brett Lee, but only much better. That is, apart from an off cutter he didn't do much else with the ball other than bowl it fast. This is why he didn't age well, and why we see a significant deteriation in his averages against Australia, and other teams generally from about the end of 1999 onwards. Here are Donald's 'Reverse Cumulative Averages' to demonstate that fact;

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=results;type=bowling;view=reverse_cumulative

For me, Marshall, Lillee, and Imran are greater bowlers because they adapted to 'old age' a lot better That is, as their pace naturally slowed they learnt to vary their deliveries and out-smart the batsman more. But yes, an Allan Donald circa 1997/98 was awesome