The argument against Donald

[hendrix]

Allan Donald was basically a South African version of Brett Lee, but only much better. That is, apart from an off cutter he didn't do much else with the ball other than bowl it fast.

not true.

He learned how to swing it from Imran and Marshall. Had a decent outswinger.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Was found wanting against Australia on many occasions. What made McGrath so awesome was when he stepped up against the best team of the era, West Indies, and decimated them right from the start. Donald had some decent spells vs Australia, but was found wanting on a lot of occasions. No doubt, an amazing bowler, ALWAYS loved watching him bowl.

Fair enough if you feel that way, but apart from Ambrose none of the greatest fast bowler's did that well against Australia so I find it difficult to penalise Donald much for that. And West Indies weren't really a powerful batting lineup were they? McGrath's record against his strongest opponent South Africa isn't all that different from Donald's against Australia.

 

[watson]

not true.

He learned how to swing it from Imran and Marshall. Had a decent outswinger.

Fair enough.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Allan Donald was basically a South African version of Brett Lee, but only much better. That is, apart from an off cutter he didn't do much else with the ball other than bowl it fast.

That is simply not true. He swung it both in as well as out when he wanted. Have you seen that demonic inswinger he bowled to Atherton which swung in from a mile outside off and cleaned him up?

 

[watson]

Fair enough if you feel that way, but apart from Ambrose none of the greatest fast bowler's did that well against Australia so I find it difficult to penalise Donald much for that. And West Indies weren't really a powerful batting lineup were they? McGrath's record against his strongest opponent South Africa isn't all that different from Donald's against Australia.

Kind of true;

McGrath V SA
Tests = 17
Wickets = 57
Ave = 27.33
SR = 71.61
5w = 2
10w = 0

http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerOpponents.asp?PlayerID=1133

 

[ankitj]

I rate McGrath higher but it's a little unfair to penalize Donald for his only a slightly poorer record against an insanely strong lineup. McGrath never bowled against Australia itself so we'd not know how he'd have done.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Exciting player to watch, but the point you bring up about him being regularly overlooked in those ATG teams is interesting.I think one of the reasons why Donald gets overlooked is because of the sheer competition, not the lack of ability on his part.Bowlers like Marshall, Imran, Lillee,Mcgrath, Ambrose, Wasim will always be at a level higher than that of Donald's.Also, Donald was a relative late entrant on the test arena because of South Africa's exile. He was 26 if i'm not wrong. Who knows what could have happened had he made his debut earlier and added those 4-5 years to his career.

This point I'm more inclined to buy... The fact that he came into international cricket in his prime was an advantage but it seems so harsh to hold a "what if" against him

 

[OverratedSanity]

I rate McGrath higher but it's a little unfair to penalize Donald for his only a slightly poorer record against an insanely strong lineup. McGrath never bowled against Australia itself so we'd not know how he'd have done.

Absolutely.
And apart from Australia, Donald has as good or even better record against everyone else. Does that not matter at all?
I guess the main reason is that Australian fans didn't quite see the best if Donald that often but me being an Indian I saw him rip us apart like no other fast bowler every time we faced him.

 

[benchmark00]

Tendulkar > The Don.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Tendulkar > The Don.

Everyone knows that

 

[Burgey]

Still working at PWC mate?

 

[ankitj]

Absolutely.
And apart from Australia, Donald has as good or even better record against everyone else. Does that not matter at all?
I guess the main reason is that Australian fans didn't quite see the best if Donald that often but me being an Indian I saw him rip us apart like no other fast bowler every time we faced him.

Yeah, can't forget his bowling against India in 96-97. Absolutely scorching stuff.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Not sure what to make of Donald being found 'wanting' against Australia.. I think people are going by his last tour of Australia of 2001-2002 when he was pretty much on life support and retired soon after.
In the 90s, I think he was as good as anyone against Australia...
And if people bring up McGrath against West Indies, lot of people forget that South Africa thrashed West Indies 5-0 in 1998 and Donald pretty much walked all over Brian Charles in that series.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Yeah, can't forget his bowling against India in 96-97. Absolutely scorching stuff.

The image that will forever be in my mind is Donald clean bowling SRT in that 96 series in between bat and pad right after Tendulkar had hit him for a few boundaries..

 

[Burgey]

Wait. Are people saying Donald was as good a bowler as McGrath?

 

[ImpatientLime]

Was he the one true great paceman of his era that got bested by Michael Atherton?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Was he the one true great paceman of his era that got bested by Michael Atherton?

Bah. Boucher was a **** keeper.

Also did this to Atherton

Impossible bowling in cricket, unplayable ball - YouTube

My eyes popped out when I first saw it

 

[ImpatientLime]

Hmmmm, actually got Athers out 11 times.

I guess the 185* and 98* are just very vivid memories of mine.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Hmmmm, actually got Athers out 11 times.

I guess the 185* and 98* are just very vivid memories of mine.

Yep. And even in those innings, he was let off a few times to Donald, (IIRC Boucher dropped him and the umpire didn't give him out when he'd gloved it too) Not saying they weren't amazing knocks mind

 

[ankitj]

Wait. Are people saying Donald was as good a bowler as McGrath?

I think what we are saying is that record against Australia is not the reason why McGrath is a better bowler. McGrath's sheer consistency over a very long period puts him ahead. But Donald was good enough to trouble the best of the best, his record against Australia needs to be seen in proper context.