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New Zealand A Tour of India and Sri Lanka
- Thread starter Kippax
- Start date
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
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Mike5181
International Captain
We've got a game against BCB XI tomorrow as well I think
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Milne still with a couple of overs to take the remaining 4 wickets...
Immenso
International Vice-Captain
So, tour is over.
Despite myself bouncing between exuberance and whinginess, I think the tour has been brilliant. Can't wait until the next one.
Another positive step in the post-Vaughan era.
I'd like NZC too look at how Windies A are touring India a month before their WI v Ind test series. That should be the model for NZ, finances allowing. Send the A team a month before, which should include about 5 squad players from the test squad. So that when the test team turns up for their solitary warm up game, it can be a proper 11-a-side FC game as 5 of the 15 squad members have already been there playing for a month.
E.g. In this current tour, Gillespie, Bracewell, Anderson, Latham, Sodhi fit this description. I would have liked Brownlie there as well, and maybe Rutherford CLT20 permitting.
Despite myself bouncing between exuberance and whinginess, I think the tour has been brilliant. Can't wait until the next one.
Another positive step in the post-Vaughan era.
I'd like NZC too look at how Windies A are touring India a month before their WI v Ind test series. That should be the model for NZ, finances allowing. Send the A team a month before, which should include about 5 squad players from the test squad. So that when the test team turns up for their solitary warm up game, it can be a proper 11-a-side FC game as 5 of the 15 squad members have already been there playing for a month.
E.g. In this current tour, Gillespie, Bracewell, Anderson, Latham, Sodhi fit this description. I would have liked Brownlie there as well, and maybe Rutherford CLT20 permitting.
Binkley
U19 Captain
I agree. The tour has been a brilliant concept, and although some of the performances have been less so it must still have been a great learning experience for the players involved.
straw man
Hall of Fame Member
Ok I'll play, with FOOTNOTES. Ranked by current level with an eye towards playing tests for NZ (hence no Arnel).
Bowlers:
Southee (1)
Boult
....
Milne (2)
Wagner (3)
Bracewell (4)
Gillespie (5)
Henry (6)
....
Wheeler (7)
Other promising young bowlers (8)
Wildcard: McClenaghan (9)
(1) Agree Southee slightly > Boult mainly because I think most oppositions would see it that way.
(2) Based on limited information yes, but I just keep liking what I'm seeing; he's beating batsman and starting to get good results. Therefore rated higher than Wagner purely in terms of what the batsman has to deal with when facing him. That still leaves open the question of fitness and role for NZ - not going to bowl lots of overs in a 4-man attack like Wagner would.
(3) You know what you're going to get. It may not be pretty but it's been adequate to date.
(4) Neither confirms nor denies his spot on the edge of the NZ first XI - treading water. Definitely has not done enough to overtake Wagner though.
(5) Booming days are over imo. Still, not much between him and Bracewell at this point.
(6) So he had a poor A tour for whatever reason. That's not going to make me go all What You See Is All There Is and revise his rating to below his domestic peers like Wheeler, Small, Duffy - he's still better than them all imo.
(7) I do think he's a good bowler with a lot of potential and thus is rated slightly ahead of all other domestic bowlers.
(8) e.g. Neesham, Small, Duffy, Verma etc
(9) I just don't know how to rate him as a test prospect. There's the whole 'looks quick but speed gun says slow' thing. Though sometimes he actually is quick. And some days he really does just bowl 125km/h. Has been injury affected which may affect his ability to bowl lots of overs in tests for NZ if required, though also means that although he's 27 and hasn't cracked the team yet, it's possible we haven't seen the best of him yet. Has largely been average in domestic FC but occasional patches of brilliance, and playing ODIs for NZ may help him lift his game. I also wonder though if he's just happy to prioritise ODIs and T20s over tests at this point - be the next Kyle Mills. Despite all this, my mental image of his bowling is a ball to the left hander that pitches on a good length, hits the seam and rears up sharply and kicks away with the keeper taking the ball at head height, and even if the speed gun only shows 135, that makes me think potential test bowler.
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Flem274*
123/5
I reckon McClenaghan's slower pace post injury was a mixture of him bowling within himself because he wasn't feeling 100% and his action dictating he will always be a bowler who will struggle to generate pace if his rhythm is slightly off.
We'll just have to wait and see. He might also bowl slower to help his accuracy. Along with Morne Morkel and sometimes Dale Steyn, he was one of the only bowlers clocked over 140kph in South Africa, where the rest of our bowlers were apparently 125-130kph. In the home series against England he was 140-145 when Mills (a good control sample bowler because he always bowls the same 125-135kph pace) was being clocked as he should be, so I don't think the pace is a complete myth, but he isn't a 150kph bowler like the hype said, he just hits the bat hard and gets more bounce than his stature would suggest.
But even if he does turn out to be just a 135kph bowler, like you say he has the tools to be a good first change seamer because he gets bounce and sometimes a bit of swing. He looks to be a real product of the home pitches he's played on in first class cricket, where pace and bounce are your only hope because good luck getting any movement out of Napier or Eden Park. He also works very hard to improve, as he's gone from left arm dobber to left arm wild and out of control to what he is today. It's just a question of whether he can eliminate the pressure release deliveries he has the tendency to bowl after his first couple of overs and whether he can stay fit and in rhythm. He's the kind of bowler who needs to be bowling maiden after maiden in first class because he's not really a day in day out swing bowler, either conventional or reverse, from what I've seen.
We'll just have to wait and see. He might also bowl slower to help his accuracy. Along with Morne Morkel and sometimes Dale Steyn, he was one of the only bowlers clocked over 140kph in South Africa, where the rest of our bowlers were apparently 125-130kph. In the home series against England he was 140-145 when Mills (a good control sample bowler because he always bowls the same 125-135kph pace) was being clocked as he should be, so I don't think the pace is a complete myth, but he isn't a 150kph bowler like the hype said, he just hits the bat hard and gets more bounce than his stature would suggest.
But even if he does turn out to be just a 135kph bowler, like you say he has the tools to be a good first change seamer because he gets bounce and sometimes a bit of swing. He looks to be a real product of the home pitches he's played on in first class cricket, where pace and bounce are your only hope because good luck getting any movement out of Napier or Eden Park. He also works very hard to improve, as he's gone from left arm dobber to left arm wild and out of control to what he is today. It's just a question of whether he can eliminate the pressure release deliveries he has the tendency to bowl after his first couple of overs and whether he can stay fit and in rhythm. He's the kind of bowler who needs to be bowling maiden after maiden in first class because he's not really a day in day out swing bowler, either conventional or reverse, from what I've seen.
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Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avW3XsTT0QE
From Plunket Promise. Rugged balance in his stance and a fearsome pull shot.
From Plunket Promise. Rugged balance in his stance and a fearsome pull shot.
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Flem274*
123/5
Definitely looks like he should slot in at seven if he plays rather than five or six like he does for ND and NZ A.
I was going to get snarky about his slash cut but later in his innings it looks like he actually makes an effort to get his back foot into position. His front foot still goes to the same place every ball which is worrying. Sweet pull.
If Munro actually tried to look something like a batsman he would bat like Anderson imo. Both looks the dogs bollocks through the legside but hairy through the offside (though Anderson is much, much more cultured than Munro). Munro probably has the best hook in the country barring Taylor.
I was going to get snarky about his slash cut but later in his innings it looks like he actually makes an effort to get his back foot into position. His front foot still goes to the same place every ball which is worrying. Sweet pull.
If Munro actually tried to look something like a batsman he would bat like Anderson imo. Both looks the dogs bollocks through the legside but hairy through the offside (though Anderson is much, much more cultured than Munro). Munro probably has the best hook in the country barring Taylor.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I've never really bought the idea that Anderson could make it as a specialist batsman in Tests without some serious work; I remember having arguments with Howsie about it a long time ago. Kippax's videos only reaffirm my position on that but he's clearly got something to work with when you add in his bowling so if he stays fit he could be useful as an allrounder at 6 or 7 moving forward.
Binkley
U19 Captain
If I was going to compare Anderson to another batsman on the basis of that video, it would be Jesse Ryder. Yes, the feet don't really go anywhere when he strikes the ball - but his head is so very, very still through-out each stroke.
Bahnz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah, I'd agree with that, especially when he plays that "I cbf with this rubbish" cross-batted swipe over mid-on. Must've seen Jesse play that shot a hundred times.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
There's just no need for an allrounder who bowls at first change. We won't have 2 test standard spinners in the foreseeable future while we have nearly 10 prospects for the 3rd seamer slot. Even if he did work hugely on his bowling, he's unlikely to be able to turn into Cairns.
It's 6 or bust for Anderson as far as I care.
It's 6 or bust for Anderson as far as I care.
Flem274*
123/5
Watling is quite capable of batting at six. Tbh I think it might actually help him. Anderson or whoever at seven and operating as the fourth quick would be fine balance wise provided they're good enough with the bat to be a test seven.
And I wasn't comparing Anderson to Munro as such, I was comparing an ideal Munro to Anderson, if that makes sense.
And I wasn't comparing Anderson to Munro as such, I was comparing an ideal Munro to Anderson, if that makes sense.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
I think a good attack is:
Southee
Boult
First change bowler (Wagner/Bracewell/Gillespie/Milne)
Spinner
Anderson
Edit: Flem clarified.
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hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Ah ok so we are agreeing on team composition, just that you'd switch around Watling and Anderson.
Yeah, I don't care too much about that.
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Flem274*
123/5
Yeah I think we lose a decent portion of batting* in order to gain a fourth seamer and fifth bowler on a tour where KW will be more useful in the fifth bowler role.
Though I am hopeful that if picked, Anderson will take to his number seven have a go role and flourish comparative to the guy who was dropped. He's not going to be much use in situations where we need to bat time though.
*Unless Brownlie has found new depths against spin
Any chance Brownlie will move up the order in the near future btw? He's not exactly one to get forward to the moving ball but his batsmanship against pace is more than good enough to be test standard so starting him against the quicks might be a better option than selling him down the river at five against spin with an old ball.
Though I am hopeful that if picked, Anderson will take to his number seven have a go role and flourish comparative to the guy who was dropped. He's not going to be much use in situations where we need to bat time though.
*Unless Brownlie has found new depths against spin
Any chance Brownlie will move up the order in the near future btw? He's not exactly one to get forward to the moving ball but his batsmanship against pace is more than good enough to be test standard so starting him against the quicks might be a better option than selling him down the river at five against spin with an old ball.