New Zealand A Tour of India and Sri Lanka

[Bahnz]

Wagner should definitely be ahead of Bracewell. Henry too high given how little FC cricket he's played.

I know McCullum's a dick, but he should be way higher on that list, and Vettori shouldn't be there at all since he hasn't played an FC innings of any note in more than two and a half years.

As for your prediction, the only way that'll happen is if injury gets Anderson before he completes 20 test matches. Which is highly likely.

 

[hendrix]

It's interesting that Milne seems to have settled on making the in-swinger his stock delivery. Generally if you can swing it both ways it's better to use the outswinger as your regular, delivery, as the in-swinger will then threaten the pads/stumps. By contrast, if a batsman plays for the inswinger when the ball is moving away, 99% of the time the movement is going to be too much to catch the edge (that was Martin Crowe's - highly effective - strategy for dealing with Wasim's ability to swing it both ways).

See the armband Milne wears on his left arm? Seen the haircut?



I think he's trying to emulate Bond in OD cricket. The long format domestic stuff it looks like the outswinger is his stock delivery. Hopefully it remains that way.

 

[Hurricane]

I suspect the inswing is bond's influence. At least he has taught him to swing it because he used to be cannon fodder - remember that T20 when some pakistani teenager smoked him a 150kms thunderbolt for six over midwicket.

 

[Flem274*]

Milne was like 12 himself. At that age his main focus was probably training his body to cope with generating such pace and landing that pace somewhere on the cut strip. Once he got some modicum of accuracy he learned how to swing the ball.

 

[hendrix]

Anyway I'm bored. Name your top ten batsmen and quick bowlers in unzud.

Bowlers

Southee
Boult
Gillespie (when he's actually "booming" through the crease)
Milne
Wheeler
Bracewell
Henry
Wagner
Butler
Arnel

Is McCleneghan likely to feature in this list at some stage?

He's had some flukey wickets sure, but still, he keeps taking them.

 

[Flem274*]

Wagner should definitely be ahead of Bracewell. Henry too high given how little FC cricket he's played.

I know McCullum's a dick, but he should be way higher on that list, and Vettori shouldn't be there at all since he hasn't played an FC innings of any note in more than two and a half years.

As for your prediction, the only way that'll happen is if injury gets Anderson before he completes 20 test matches. Which is highly likely.

Both Anderson and Neesham are ridiculously good strikers with leaky defence. Anderson has scored more runs but he's also played a lot more games and has adapted. Neesham is still pretty new to the FC scene. Where Neesham comprehensively wins is the bowling and fitness, and since we seem to be keeping an eye out for an allrounder to bat at seven and bowl Neesham will be our boi once he improves his defence. Neesham is a genuine FC standard front four bowler and Otago could get away with him being the third quick in a four man attack if they wanted to: Anderson isn't at that level (but should be, he's great to watch).

I think Anderson is way overhyped and Neesham well underhyped relative to each other. Both have fairly equal ceilings imo.

 

[Hurricane]

Top ten batsman at the long form

1 Taylor
Daylight
2 Kane
Daylight
3 Baz
4 Rutherford
5 Fulton
6 Brownlie
7 Flynn
8 Cachopa
9 Franklin
10 Weerasundera sp?

Dan's batting is cooked. He has lost his bottle. He got concussed by Aamir and took a step backwards. Then he stopped playing ODIs and lost his familarity with facing 140ks bowling.

I left out Jessie as he is not playing atm

Bowling

1 Tim
2 Boult
Daylight
3 Wagner
4 Bracewell
5 Milne
6 Henry
7 Small
8 Wheeler
9 Flem's friend
10 Boomer

 

[Flem274*]

Is McCleneghan likely to feature in this list at some stage?

He's had some flukey wickets sure, but still, he keeps taking them.

Limited overs he's well inside the top ten, but for FC not yet. I didn't think it was fair to exclude Arnel's years of consist quality when McClenaghan hasn't really taken red ball cricket by the balls yet.

 

[Hurricane]

Both Anderson and Neesham are ridiculously good strikers with leaky defence. Anderson has scored more runs but he's also played a lot more games and has adapted. Neesham is still pretty new to the FC scene. Where Neesham comprehensively wins is the bowling and fitness, and since we seem to be keeping an eye out for an allrounder to bat at seven and bowl Neesham will be our boi once he improves his defence. Neesham is a genuine FC standard front four bowler and Otago could get away with him being the third quick in a four man attack if they wanted to: Anderson isn't at that level (but should be, he's great to watch).

I think Anderson is way overhyped and Neesham well underhyped relative to each other. Both have fairly equal ceilings imo.

I think Anderson is a walking injury and should give up bowling or just do a styris and bowl 115kms cutters. However is batting is considerably better than neeshams in terms of ball striking quality and as such has more potential. The hype is justified but not due to his injury proneness. He will never be a regular fixture for NZ.

 

[hendrix]

Anderson has scored more runs but he's also played a lot more games and has adapted. Neesham is still pretty new to the FC scene.

Anderson entered first class cricket as a teenager. Yes, it took him some time to adjust, but I think there's a big advantage in having already made those developments that Neesham the batsman is yet to make.

 

[Flem274*]

I think Anderson is a walking injury and should give up bowling or just do a styris and bowl 115kms cutters. However is batting is considerably better than neeshams in terms of ball striking quality and as such has more potential. The hype is justified but not due to his injury proneness. He will never be a regular fixture for NZ.

He really isn't. I've watched Neesham play some ridiculously good shots. Anderson might be better, but it's marginal. Anderson's main advantage is he has the Cantabrian born and bred badge and the ND hype machine behind him.

With their current techniques, neither should give up bowling. If Anderson tries to be a batting allrounder rather than a balanced allrounder then his first foray into test cricket will fail imo. Just isn't good enough yet to make it as a specialist batsman without further work on his defence against the moving ball and his shot selection. His front foot has a tendency to go to the same spot every time he plays a front foot shot, regardless of where the ball is relative to him. He has the hand eye coordination to be a pure batsman but not the technique yet.

 

[hendrix]

Bowlers proven to be good:
Boult
Southee
Vettori

Bowlers with limitless potential:
Milne
Duffy

Bowlers likely to be good/at least test standard:
Bracewell
Wagner (hey, his record is good)
Wheeler

Unknown:
Sodhi
McCleneghan
Henry
Verma
Small
Mathieson
Bartlett

 

[Flem274*]

Henry so good he gets mentioned twice?

I'd add Verma, Small, Mathieson and Bartlett to the hopefuls list too.

Jumping the gun a bit with the big wraps on Duffy imo. I'm not sold either way just yet.

 

[Hurricane]

I am reticent to analyse Jimmy because he is probably reading the thread and will just say it was a situational inning. However from what little I have seen of Jimmy he is not as fluent through the off side as he is off his pads. Does that suggest a bowling plan to you as a bowler in tests because it does to me.
Also if we hold Flynn up as the gold standard of ball striking in the plunket shield for left handers in terms of form and technique then Anderson is the closest to this. His head is in a better position and his follow through has been practiced much more and as a result is more pure.

 

[Hurricane]

Henry so good he gets mentioned twice?

I'd add Verma, Small, Mathieson and Bartlett to the hopefuls list too.

Jumping the gun a bit with the big wraps on Duffy imo. I'm not sold either way just yet.

I think Small will do the greatest things out of those you have bracketed him with..

 

[Flem274*]

Neesham loves a good drive tbh, and funny you bring that up because have you seen Anderson on the drive? swish, swish, swish, beautiful shot, swish, swish...

 

[hendrix]

Henry so good he gets mentioned twice?

I'd add Verma, Small, Mathieson and Bartlett to the hopefuls list too.

Jumping the gun a bit with the big wraps on Duffy imo. I'm not sold either way just yet.

Edited.

Duffy is jumping the gun (in comparison to Milne who has proven himself domestically and internationally) but I wanted a category for him. He has more potential than anyone barring Milne IMO.

 

[Hurricane]

Kippax to post a red ball batting inning of Neesham and Anderson including dot balls please and thank you.

Will reserve further debate with Flem until then.

 

[Flem274*]

I think we're being a tad harsh in excluding/plain forgetting Kuggs too imo. He's getting smoked atm but this is a guy who has made some drastic improvements from unco 140kph sprayer to someone with a nice action who is trying to bowl intelligently, but isn't very accurate yet nor does he move the ball. He's a bit like Milne or McClenaghan was a few years ago where he was very raw and probably out of his depth but working hard to improve.

 

[hendrix]

Kuggs is a rich man's Andy Ellis at this stage. Got a fair bit of work to do to be listed with the other bowlers IMO.