The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[NUFAN]

Just a bit of a change of subject, although related to the thread - who would make your 21st century team Australian team? You can't be named in two teams, sorry Warne.

The 20th century team was:
1 Bill Ponsford
2 Arthur Morris
3 Don Bradman (captain)
4 Greg Chappell
5 Neil Harvey
6 Keith Miller (vice-captain)
7 Ian Healy (wicket-keeper)
8 Ray Lindwall
9 Shane Warne
10 Dennis Lillee
11 Bill O'Reilly
Allan Border (12th man)

21st century team
1 Matthew Hayden
2 Justin Langer
3 Ricky Ponting
4 Michael Clarke
5 Steve Waugh
6 Michael Hussey
7 Adam Gilchrist
8 Jason Gillespie
9 Peter Siddle
10 Stuart MacGill
11 Glenn McGrath

Yep, the whole exercise was so I can put Siddle in the team

Also, has there ever been a 19th century Australian team published?

 

[Red]

A couple of years ago Inside Cricket released a special to celebrate someone being capped as Aust's 400th test player. Thought they were really interesting teams, one team was selected from the first 100 cricketers, one from the second, and so on....

I can't find them online though. I'll see if I can find the mag at home.

 

[bagapath]

ODI cricket is 42 years old this year. Dividing its history into three equal parts....

ODI XI 1971 - 1985

Greenidge
Haynes
V. Richards (6)
G. Chappell (5)
Zaheer Abbas
Lloyd (C)
Dujon (wk)
Hadlee (2)
Holding (1)
Qadir (4)
Garner (3)

ODI XI 1985 - 1999

Tendulkar
Jayasuriya (5)
De Silva
Jones
Bevan
Flower (wk)
Waugh (C) (6)
Akram (1)
Saqlain (4)
Waqar (2)
Donald (3)

ODI XI 1999 - 2013

Hayden
Gilchrist (wk)
Ponting
Kallis (5)
Symonds (7)
Dhoni (C)
Klusener (6)
Pollock (4)
Lee (2)
Murali (3)
McGrath (1)

The Rejects XI

Anwar
Watson (6)
Lara
Pietersen
De Villiers (wk)
Hussey
Flintoff (5)
Imran (C) (2)
Kapil (3)
Warne (4)
Lillee (1)

 

[bagapath]

Just a bit of a change of subject, although related to the thread - who would make your 21st century team Australian team? You can't be named in two teams, sorry Warne.

The 20th century team was:
1 Bill Ponsford
2 Arthur Morris
3 Don Bradman (captain)
4 Greg Chappell
5 Neil Harvey
6 Keith Miller (vice-captain)
7 Ian Healy (wicket-keeper)
8 Ray Lindwall
9 Shane Warne
10 Dennis Lillee
11 Bill O'Reilly
Allan Border (12th man)

21st century team
1 Matthew Hayden
2 Justin Langer
3 Ricky Ponting
4 Michael Clarke
5 Steve Waugh
6 Michael Hussey
7 Adam Gilchrist
8 Jason Gillespie
9 Peter Siddle
10 Stuart MacGill
11 Glenn McGrath

Yep, the whole exercise was so I can put Siddle in the team

Also, has there ever been a 19th century Australian team published?

my 20th century aussie team

trumper
morris
bradman (c)
g.chappell
harvey
border
miller
healy (wk)
lindwall
lillee
oreilly

my 21st century aussie team

hayden
langer
ponting
clarke
hussey
s.waugh (c)
gilchrist (wk)
warne
gillespie
siddle
mcgrath

 

[NUFAN]

my 20th century aussie team

trumper
morris
bradman (c)
g.chappell
harvey
border
miller
healy (wk)
lindwall
lillee
oreilly

my 21st century aussie team

hayden
langer
ponting
clarke
hussey
s.waugh (c)
gilchrist (wk)
warne
gillespie
siddle
mcgrath

Yeah good teams. I would go with both of them too IF I could have included Warne in the 21st team. Hardest decision is the 20th century opener. I would play Trumper but not certain on who should partner him really.

 

[Dan]

Simpson.

 

[The Sean]

An off-the-top-of-my head 19th Century Australian XI

Charles Bannerman
Percy McDonnell
Billy Murdoch
Joe Darling
Syd Gregory
George Giffen
Jack Blackham
Charles Turner
George Palmer
Jack Ferris
Fred Spofforth

There are probably a couple of obvious names I’ve overlooked – the tail is longer than ideal, but I reckon that side would go ok.

I was going to include Hugh Trumble as he played more than half his career Tests in the 1890s, but he was actually considerably more successful after the turn of the century. Harry Boyle, the Trotts and big George Bonnor also came into my considerations.

 

[Howe_zat]

Not sure what Siddle's done that Lee didn't - the latter had a few very good years at the start and end of his career. And he'd always run in all day for you.

 

[Red]

Just mucking around with some Australia XI's after looking at the Mike Hussey thread....


1st XI

- Trumper
- Taylor
- Bradman
- G. Chappell
- Miller
- Harvey
- Gilchrist
- Warne
- Lillee
- O'Reilly
- McGrath

2nd XI

- Morris
- Lawry
- Ponting
- McCabe
- S. Waugh
- Border
- Healy
- Davison
- Lindwall
- McDermott
- Grimmett

3rd XI

- Simpson
- Slater
- MacCartney
- M. Waugh
- Clarke
- Walters
- Marsh
- Benaud
- Gregory
- Gillespie
- Spofforth

4th XI

- Hayden
- Langer
- I. Chappell
- Hassett
- Ponsford
- Hussey
- Noble
- Giffen
- Tallon
- McKenzie
- Thomson

 

[bagapath]

Both Hayden and Langer > Slater

 

[Red]

Both Hayden and Langer > Slater

Rate them all similarly. Not a fan of Hayden at all. Big fan of Langer during his time as an opener.

 

[Dan]

First XI	Second XI	Third XI	Fourth XI	Fifth XI
V Trumper	A Morris	M Hayden	M Slater	M Taylor *
B Simpson	A Jackson	J Langer	B Ponsford	S Katich
D Bradman *	C Macartney	C Hill	I Chappell *	D Boon
G Chappell	S McCabe	N Harvey	M Waugh	N O'Neill
K Miller	A Border *	M Clarke *	D Martyn	B Cowper
R Ponting	S Waugh	M Hussey	D Walters	S Smith
A Gilchrist +	A Davidson	M Noble	W Armstrong	I Healy +
S Warne	R Lindwall	J Gregory	B Oldfield+	R Harris
D Lillee	D Tallon +	R Benaud	H Trumble	J Gillespie
B O'Reilly	C Grimmett	J Blackham +	CTB Turner	G McKenzie
G McGrath	F Spofforth	C McDermott	B Johnston	S MacGill

Devastated I couldn't get Peter Siddle in there.

 

[fredfertang]

An off-the-top-of-my head 19th Century Australian XI

Charles Bannerman
Percy McDonnell
Billy Murdoch
Joe Darling
Syd Gregory
George Giffen
Jack Blackham
Charles Turner
George Palmer
Jack Ferris
Fred Spofforth

There are probably a couple of obvious names I’ve overlooked – the tail is longer than ideal, but I reckon that side would go ok.

I was going to include Hugh Trumble as he played more than half his career Tests in the 1890s, but he was actually considerably more successful after the turn of the century. Harry Boyle, the Trotts and big George Bonnor also came into my considerations.

Interesting - I can only think of Frank Iredale amongst those who completed their careers in the 19th century who might be worth sticking in there - open it up to those who just started in Victorian times and you can add Vic Trumper, Clem Hill and Monty Noble

 

[The Sean]

Interesting - I can only think of Frank Iredale amongst those who completed their careers in the 19th century who might be worth sticking in there - open it up to those who just started in Victorian times and you can add Vic Trumper, Clem Hill and Monty Noble

I'd forgotten Iredale. I didn't consider the other three as I was judging just on performances in the 19th Century rather than what they achieved later.

 

[The Sean]

First XI	Second XI	Third XI	Fourth XI	Fifth XI
V Trumper	A Morris	M Hayden	M Slater	M Taylor *
B Simpson	A Jackson	J Langer	B Ponsford	S Katich
D Bradman *	C Macartney	C Hill	I Chappell *	D Boon
G Chappell	S McCabe	N Harvey	M Waugh	N O'Neill
K Miller	A Border *	M Clarke *	D Martyn	B Cowper
R Ponting	S Waugh	M Hussey	D Walters	S Smith
A Gilchrist +	A Davidson	M Noble	W Armstrong	I Healy +
S Warne	R Lindwall	J Gregory	B Oldfield+	R Harris
D Lillee	D Tallon +	R Benaud	H Trumble	J Gillespie
B O'Reilly	C Grimmett	J Blackham +	CTB Turner	G McKenzie
G McGrath	F Spofforth	C McDermott	B Johnston	S MacGill

Devastated I couldn't get Peter Siddle in there.

I bloody love that second XI.

 

[the big bambino]

Maybe the little dasher for the 19th century XI

 

[kyear2]

Australia ATG XI
Arthur Morris
Robert Simpson(5)^
Sir Donald Bradman*
Greg Chappell^
Ricky Ponting
Allan Border
Adam Gilchrist+
Alan Davidson(3)
Shane Warne(4)^
Denis Lillee(1)
Glenn McGrath(2)

West Indies ATG XI
Gordon Greenidge
Sir Conrad Hunte
George Headley*
Sir I.V.A. Richards^
Brian Lara^
Sir Garfield Sobers(5)^
Sir Clyde Walcott+
Malcolm Marshall(1)
Michael Holding(3)
Curtly Ambrose(2)
Joel Garner(4)

South Africa ATG XI
Barry Richards^
Graeme Smith*^
Hashim Amla
Graeme Pollock
Jacques Kallis(5)^
Dudley Nourse
Michael Procter(3)
John Waite+
Hugh Tayfield(4)
Dale Steyn(2)
Alan Donald (1)

England ATG XI
Sir Jack Hobbs
Sir Leonard Hutton
Walter Hammond^
Denis Compton
Ken Barrington
Sir Ian Botham(5)^
Allan Knott+
Harold Larwood(2)
Jim Laker(4)
Fred Trueman(1)
Sydney Barnes(3)

Pakistan ATG XI
Saeed Anwar
Hanif Mohammad
Younis Khan^
Javed Miandad^
Inzamam Ul-Haq^
Mushtaq Mohammad(5)
Imran Khan(2)*
Rashid Latif+
Wasim Akram(3)
Saqlain Mushtaq(4)
Waqar Youis(1)

 

[Flem274*]

Australia
B Simpson
D Bradman
R Ponting
G Chappell
A Border
S Waugh
A Gilchrist
K Miller
S Warne
D Lillee
G McGrath

I can understand the inevitable criticism I'll get for opening with Bradman considering Australia's depth, but I wanted to fit all the hard ****s in the middle order. If the top four fail I'd want Border and Waugh at the crease every time. I picked Miller to bat eight because he was a world class bowler and his inclusion levels up the batting from unfair to old school nintendo.

West Indies
G Greenidge
D Haynes
G Headley
V Richards
B Lara
G Sobers
C Walcott
M Marshall
M Holding
C Ambrose
C Walsh

I wanted to bring in two of the most famous combinations in test cricket for this team: Haynes/Greenidge and Ambrose/Walsh. I've had to revise my opinion of Headley a bit as well after DoG's exercise. I initially thought that even though he was superb and carried a dire batting unit for years, Chanderpaul had the sheer tests under his belt and would be perfect coming in lower down to complement Sobers or play a rescue innings if the mercurial nature of some members of the top order didn't end well.

 

[smash84]

I really do like both teams. The Aus side bats properly down to friggin number 8

 

[Flem274*]

South Africa since readmission

G Smith
G Kirsten
H Amla
J Kallis
D Cullinan
A de Villiers
M Boucher
S Pollock
V Philander
D Steyn
A Donald

Would compete respectably against ATG XIs from other nations.