*Official* Fourth Test at Chester-le-Street

[Maximas]

yep, 4 quicks never really works the way you think it will I find, unless it's an absolute greentop and you can afford to be unrelenting with quick bowlers.

 

[91Jmay]

And a suspended Clarke for slow over rate. Not a chance.

Myth. Agar barely bowled for large parts of the 2nd dig at Lords and you were fine.

 

[Maximas]

Myth. Agar barely bowled for large parts of the 2nd dig at Lords and you were fine.

spinners bowled 43 out of the 114 overs in that innings, almost all of them on day 3 as well, not a great example IMO

 

[Howe_zat]

You have four seamers anyway. Five just takes the mick.

 

[91Jmay]

spinners bowled 43 out of the 114 overs in that innings, almost all of them on day 3 as well, not a great example IMO

No that is exactly my point. Seamers bowled most of the first 50 overs and the over rate was fine, Watson and a part time spinner would keep it totally ok.

 

[Maximas]

No that is exactly my point. Seamers bowled most of the first 50 overs and the over rate was fine, Watson and a part time spinner would keep it totally ok.

Probably has something to do with the way the game was being played at that point though, we didn't particularly give a **** so we just wheeled through our overs then brought the spinners on, I'm still skeptical about you saying a day where almost half the overs were bowled by spinners proves 4 seamers wouldn't pose an overate problem though. We don't know what may have happened if we had 4 seamers that day, especially if we were still in the game.

 

[Furball]

Bowlers bowl as a unit to take the wickets, there English batsmen who don't play spin all that well, and the tail-enders fancy a hit, Lyon can target these players, and be more effective against them than seamers. There is also the issue of pace bowler management, a big issue for Australian bowlers and the over-rate issue.

While that is specific for Lyon, there are almost always good reasons to have a spinner in the side, even if it is not a specialist, you want to be able to turn to spin to throw a new challenge at the batsmen or exposes weaknesses.

They play spin fine in England. Unless your name is Shane Warne or Muttiah Muralitharan, opposition spinners in England get battered.

Since Swann's debut, England have had 31 home Tests. Opposition spinners have taken 94 wickets @ 53.11 in those Tests, with a grand total of two 5 wicket hauls.

And before we blame the pitches, Swann's taken 113 wickets @ 28.65 in the 30 Tests he's played in England, with seven 5fors.

 

[Maximas]

Sorry, meant to say "there are english batsmen who don't play spin well...", on the whole, they do play spin well, but Root, and Bairstow have left me a little unconvinced. Whoops

 

[uvelocity]

I love him, but he is a leaker, would always be risky IMO, should be given a go at some point though.

panesar is a leaker, perhaps thats why he hasnt been given a go

 

[MW1304]

Root looked great in his Test in India. Think he's just lost that great form he had tbh, hasn't looked fantastic against the quicks either.

 

[Cabinet96]

Think he's really well suited for slow pitch, which Nagpur was, but not quite as good on the quicker pitches.

 

[Furball]

He was fine at Lord's when he removed his shackles one he hit 3 figures.

He's just playing tentatively at the moment, which is understandable.

 

[Uppercut]

Have Australia went all-pace since they left out Hauritz on a rank turner at the Oval? I don't think that's a gamble they'll take again any time soon. It made the selectors look like absolute fools.

 

[Riggins]

Watson confesses to batting with silicone tape over his eyes | The Prickly Perch

 

[Cabinet96]

Have Australia went all-pace since they left out Hauritz on a rank turner at the Oval? I don't think that's a gamble they'll take again any time soon. It made the selectors look like absolute fools.

Did it twice in the last Ashes at Perth and Melbourne. Worked at Perth...didn't at Melbourne.

 

[stephen]

I'm really getting sick of all of this rubbish about not playing a spinner.

Every single time Australia have played 4 seamers without a front line spin option it has been an unmitigated disaster*. This isn't the 80s where slow over rates are par for the course. Spin bowling is an essential part of the game and having a front line spinner opens up a whole world of options not available to a captain if they pick a bunch of seamers.

What is the captain going to do between the 50th and 80th overs if the ball isn't reversing? How do you properly rotate and rest 4 seamers? How does the captain up the over rate if they need to?

It's rubbish. Pick your 3 best seamers and your best spinner. Australia's biggest bowling issue is that we haven't been playing Bird. That has nothing to do with whether Lyon plays or not. We need to decide who our best spinner is and stick with him until someone clearly better comes along.

The fact that we're playing Watson (wrongly one feels) means that there is no justification whatsoever for ever playing more than 3 other seamers. Watson is a good enough bowler to be the first change bowler for many sides around the world. If we can't get out batsmen with Harris, Siddle, Starc and Watson, what is adding Bird going to do? Not as much as having Lyon in the side.

*except at the WACA

 

[vic_orthdox]

Especially with Watson in the side.

 

[uvelocity]

with the lack of depth in our batting we are going to play a bowling allrounder even if it isnt watson imo, there will always be a spot for a spinner. but birdman needs to play for starc if harris isn't dead

 

[benchmark00]

God, you don't play a spinner just for the sake of playing a spinner if the pitch isn't going to suit. Pick an extra batsman for all I care, but picking a spinner because you're 'supposed to' is a complete waste of a place.

Don't think Watson is helped by having a decent bowling work load on top of opening. If you're going to pick 4 front line pace bowlers in pace bowling conditions then his work load would of course naturally drop off.

 

[Johann]

Frankly, the Aussie bowling attack is the last of your worries. Even when England put on all those runs in the second innings at Lords, the Aussie attack still bowled very well but just came up against a patient England prepared to dig in and wait until the bowlers got tired before taking the game to them.