*Official* Second Test at Lord's

[hendrix]

He is easily better than any Aussie spinner since Warne retired (not counting MacGill as he was past it by then anyway) and he would walk into their current side and be treated as a hero. Only Ajmal is better of the current spinners in the world, though the ex England players on tv and radio seem to have forgotten about Ajmal again and are claiming Swann is the best in the world when he isn't. It looks likely that Swann will pass 300 test wickets and become the leading English spin wicket taker in tests, a fair achievement for a late starter but he still won't get the respect he deserves off many.

Herath is quite a bit better than Swann IMO

 

[91Jmay]

Herath is quite a bit better than Swann IMO

That's a crock of ****e. Outside of Sri Lanka, Pakistan and South Africa he doesn't average less than 40. Swann doesn't average 40 anywhere in the world. Herath isn't in Swann's league, not to mention he can barely pick up a bat.

 

[Maximas]

That's a crock of ****e. Outside of Sri Lanka, Pakistan and South Africa he doesn't average less than 40. Swann doesn't average 40 anywhere in the world. Herath isn't in Swann's league, not to mention he can barely pick up a bat.

Herath has risen quite suddenly in the last 2 years, the tour to England in a years time should tell us more about him (in comparison to Swann), but he bowled very well in Australia (seven wickets at Sydney - out of 14 taken by the bowlers) and he led the wicket tally last year. I'd say they're both equal, but I felt that Herath out-bowled Swann in the 2012 SL tour.

 

[hendrix]

That's a crock of ****e. Outside of Sri Lanka, Pakistan and South Africa he doesn't average less than 40. Swann doesn't average 40 anywhere in the world. Herath isn't in Swann's league, not to mention he can barely pick up a bat.

that's because he's only played less than 3 games in each the countries you haven't mentioned.

since Murali's retirement he's dominated just about every team in the world at a much better average than Swann, and with none of the bowling support would have. Hell, SL would kill for a Steve Finn, let alone Anderson.

 

[91Jmay]

Herath has risen quite suddenly in the last 2 years, the tour to England in a years time should tell us more about him (in comparison to Swann), but he bowled very well in Australia (seven wickets at Sydney - out of 14 taken by the bowlers) and he led the wicket tally last year. I'd say they're both equal, but I felt that Herath out-bowled Swann in the 2012 SL tour.

Herath hasn't taken more than 12 wickets outside of Sri Lanka. 'Quite a bit better' is a joke.

 

[Maximas]

that's because he's only played less than 3 games in each the countries you haven't mentioned.

since Murali's retirement he's dominated just about every team in the world at a much better average than Swann, and with none of the bowling support would have. Hell, SL would kill for a Steve Finn, let alone Anderson.

Sri Lanka's attack is nothing without Herath, he is an absolute master, people always leave him out of spin discussions for some stupid reason, I honestly think he is close if not level or better than Ajmal, he bowled just as well as him in the 2012 SL-Pak series

 

[Maximas]

Herath hasn't taken more than 12 wickets outside of Sri Lanka. 'Quite a bit better' is a joke.

He hasn't made many overseas tours in his career

 

[Neil Pickup]

How many collapses will it take until Lehmann seriously considers playing himself?

 

[91Jmay]

that's because he's only played less than 3 games in each the countries you haven't mentioned.

since Murali's retirement he's dominated just about every team in the world at a much better average than Swann, and with none of the bowling support would have. Hell, SL would kill for a Steve Finn, let alone Anderson.

Dominated? Is that a joke. He took 12 wickets in 3 matches in Australia. It isn't bad but dominated?

 

[91Jmay]

My opinion of Herath is coloured because he played club cricket near me about 4 years ago and was absolute garbage, but ' a master' and dominated are ridiculous terms frankly. Suppose my point is that unless he bowls more in oversea's tours then there is no way he can be rated above Swann or Ajmal in my book. Sitting at home with pitches prepared literally for you and taking wickets is only marginally impressive.

 

[the big bambino]

My opinion of Herath is coloured because he played club cricket near me about 4 years ago and was absolute garbage, but ' a master' and dominated are ridiculous terms frankly. Suppose my point is that unless he bowls more in oversea's tours then there is no way he can be rated above Swann or Ajmal in my book. Sitting at home with pitches prepared literally for you and taking wickets is only marginally impressive.

Oh exactly. Taking test wickets is no where near as convincing as taking wickets in club cricket near you.

 

[91Jmay]

Oh exactly. Taking test wickets is no where near as convincing as taking wickets in club cricket near you.

What are you on about you prick. I said that taking test wickets at home on pitches prepared for you is not as impressive as going abroad and taking wickets which he hasn't done in any great number yet.

 

[hendrix]

If you'd actually watched any of those games you'd see that the pitches in Sri Lanka these days are far from raging turners.
They're not UAE pitches. They're not Aus-tour-of-India pitches. They're not even as good for spin as the recent Lord's pitch was.

 

[hendrix]

Dominated? Is that a joke. He took 12 wickets in 3 matches in Australia. It isn't bad but dominated?

3 matches, but Australia batted for 5 innings. one of which was declared 5 down, another declared 9 down, and another was a chase of 141 that they managed 5 down.

He took 12 wickets. The rest of the SL bowlers (Eranga (5), Prasad (3), Dilshan (3), Mathews (2), Pradeep (2), Lakmal (1)) managed 18 between them.

It wasn't even close to being his best performance and he still dominated the bowling stats.

 

[Cabinet96]

How many collapses will it take until Lehmann seriously considers playing himself?

More than the amount of times we'll hear a CWer suggest it.

 

[91Jmay]

3 matches, but Australia batted for 5 innings. one of which was declared 5 down, another declared 9 down, and another was a chase of 141 that they managed 5 down.

He took 12 wickets. The rest of the SL bowlers (Eranga (5), Prasad (3), Dilshan (3), Mathews (2), Pradeep (2), Lakmal (1)) managed 18 between them.

It wasn't even close to being his best performance and he still dominated the bowling stats.

So? He is a good bowler in a bad attack going up against a very average batting lineup. He is perhaps the 3rd best spinner in the world but he is a tier below Swann/Ajmal. Swann's SR is 5 balls per wicket higher than him as well. My big problem is that he has had average career until 2012 where he had a good year, played one test against someone whose not Bangladesh in 2013 and all of a sudden he is Swann and Ajmal quality? I need consistency over a longer period before he gets to that level.

 

[the big bambino]

What are you on about you prick. I said that taking test wickets at home on pitches prepared for you is not as impressive as going abroad and taking wickets which he hasn't done in any great number yet.

Nasty piece of work aren't you? Taking wickets at home count just as much as away and Herath's ratio is probably little different to most bowlers in cricket's history. To then run him down about how he went in a grubby little English park near your commission flats plumbs a hitherto undiscovered depth of irrelevance.

 

[91Jmay]

Nasty piece of work aren't you? Taking wickets at home count just as much as away and Herath's ratio is probably little different to most bowlers in cricket's history. To then run him down about how he went in a grubby little English park near your commission flats plumbs a hitherto undiscovered depth of irrelevance.

Aha ok sweetheart. What's a commission flat? You have to speak English to me I don't understand your shackel dragger slang.

Now lets do some maths (I'm worried about you following this though in truth) Swann has 107 of his 235 wickets in England or 45.53%. Herath has taken 136 of his 200 wickets in Sri Lanka or 68%. So no his record probably isn't little different. You are probably talking out of your arse.

 

[the big bambino]

You are probably talking out of your arse.

...or to one.

 

[hendrix]

So? He is a good bowler in a bad attack going up against a very average batting lineup. He is perhaps the 3rd best spinner in the world but he is a tier below Swann/Ajmal. Swann's SR is 5 balls per wicket higher than him as well. My big problem is that he has had average career until 2012 where he had a good year, played one test against someone whose not Bangladesh in 2013 and all of a sudden he is Swann and Ajmal quality? I need consistency over a longer period before he gets to that level.

Swann is not in Ajmal's tier. Ajmal is a tier below Warne/Murali and would be going down as an ATG if he hadn't blossomed so late in his career (I don't know whether that's Pakistani selectorial incompetence or just a massive maturing).

Herath basically didn't play until 2011. And his tests before that may as well be written off in the same way we write off Ajmal and Swann's early career non-starts. All three are significantly better bowlers than they were 10 years ago. It hasn't taken us very long to start rating Ajmal. I bet if you go back to 2010 you will see plenty of posts dismissing his abilities. The only reason for why he's so highly rated now is because of one very high profile series against the English in the UAE that was the first to reveal England's major incompetencies against slow bowling

Herath simply hasn't had that much television exposure and his wickets have come after England and Australia's weaknesses have already become apparent. I bet that he would have been just as effective as Ajmal in the UAE and the effect would have been just as shocking to the English.

Aside from all this, I'm not saying that Herath is as good as Ajmal, but I do think that he's significantly better than Swann. I still think Swann is a good bowler, but watching Herath bowl is simply delightful. He has better control, better variety, and better flight than Swann.