*Official* Second Test at Lord's

[GIMH]

good joke bud

Srs dude

 

[Spikey]

I'm sure Rogers really needed to convince Watson

 

[grecian]

They've been a complete joke for over 18 months now, barring occasional innings from Cook or Pietersen. We appear to be soundly back in mid-1980s mode where a bunch of guys with big reputations thought they were the bees' knees because they could beat the worst Australian side in living memory but did naff all against anyone else. It's becoming increasingly difficult to have anything other than utter contempt for our top order. All of which still might leave me slightly less disgusted than our Aus contributors after today's events, but you can see us 'setting' Aus a target of around 350 at this rate, which is gettable, despite what we've seen to date. Clearly the option of digging in and setting something close to 600 simply didn't appeal to the lazy tossers.

Is the heat getting to you, because this seems a bit intemperate.

TBF to the three out tonight, I think they have all scored runs against teams other than this poor Oz one, in fact this poor Oz one is the one we're struggling against. Oh and I don't think they're poor either, not bowling-wise.

We're in a comfortable position, I'm not going to get angry yet.

 

[91Jmay]

Is the heat getting to you, because this seems a bit intemperate.

TBF to the three out tonight, I think they have all scored runs against teams other than this poor Oz one, in fact this poor Oz one is the one we're struggling against. Oh and I don't think they're poor either, not bowling-wise.

We're in a comfortable position, I'm not going to get angry yet.

Yeah the top order needs runs but Trott and Cook are very good players. Any suggestion that they don't score runs against anyone but Australia is silly talk. Root is clearly talented but has a lot to prove, lucky he will get plenty of opportunity whilst the team is winning. Trott actually has looked in really good nick so far this series, he got himself out 1st dig at TB and was wrongly given out 2nd go around and this test again he gave his wicket away looking good 1st dig. Cook looks in bad nick, but that doesn't mean much for him. A huge score could be round the corner.

KP is more of my concern at the moment.

 

[Scaly piscine]

KP is KP, he'll look rank and brilliant throughout.

Trott is more worrying for me. He seems to have lost something mentally. Doesn't seem to make it count any more - getting out in soft ways.

 

[Manee]

KP is KP, he'll look rank and brilliant throughout.

Trott is more worrying for me. He seems to have lost something mentally. Doesn't seem to make it count any more - getting out in soft ways.

I think his dismissal in the second innings wasn't a failure of application. It really did bounce like a tennis ball. The first innings though seemed very uncharacteristic.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Lehmann saying Watto's review was Rogers' fault and that's why he didnt want to review his own dismissal.

Unpossible. The entire batting team's failure is on Watson.

 

[Cabinet96]

I think his dismissal in the second innings wasn't a failure of application. It really did bounce like a tennis ball. The first innings though seemed very uncharacteristic.

It wasn't uncharacteristic though, that's the point.

 

[91Jmay]

Yeah I think Trott seems to want to be something he is not a little bit. Instead of being the grinder or run machine he is getting out driving at things.

 

[wpdavid]

Is the heat getting to you, because this seems a bit intemperate.

TBF to the three out tonight, I think they have all scored runs against teams other than this poor Oz one, in fact this poor Oz one is the one we're struggling against. Oh and I don't think they're poor either, not bowling-wise.

We're in a comfortable position, I'm not going to get angry yet.

It was an honest appraisal of how they've gone since the start of 2012. Take away Cook's tons in India and KP's great knocks in SL, against SA and in India, and there's nothing of any substance from our top 4 in that period of time. I have a certain amount of sympathy for KP, who's barely played before this series, but today's dismissal was shockingly poor anyway. Agree with Scaly about Trott; something is very wrong there, whether it's mental or technical I have no idea. And it shouldn't be beyond Cook to make some runs in England nowadays, as these are hardly green tops. But it just doesn't happen.

It was probably intemperate, but losing for first 3 wickets for 30 in both innings on this pitch is bloody amateur. Once in a while it can happen, but twice just smacks of extreme carelessness. You'd hope they had learnt something from all that time watching Amla last summer.

 

[91Jmay]

Thats really not the way it works is it? 'Take away all the runs they scored in crucial matches against good opposition and they've not scored any runs'. They did score those runs. They were important and they show there class.

 

[GIMH]

Although Trott hasn't been what he was a couple of years back, his first innings knocks in both Tests have been vital

 

[Manee]

It wasn't uncharacteristic though, that's the point.

Uncharacteristic of the old Trott.

 

[wpdavid]

Thats really not the way it works is it? 'Take away all the runs they scored in crucial matches against good opposition and they've not scored any runs'. They did score those runs. They were important and they show there class.

Yeah, but my point was that the good innings have been very, very occasional. The norm has been that we simply don't regularly make the totals needed to win against sides who don't conveniently fold like this Aus lineup or NZ a couple of months ago. Watching the highlights just now, those were horribly loose defensive shots from Cook and Trott: just really poorly executed. For whatever reason, they don't seem able to dig in and bat for long periods of time.

 

[Pothas]

We did win in India...and Cook played more than the occasional good knock in that series.

I understand the general frustration I really do but they are not a disgrace or anything.

 

[Cabinet96]

Interestingly, despite 4 of the top 5 having averages above 45, none of them have averaged that much since the start of 2012: Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[wpdavid]

We did win in India...and Cook played more than the occasional good knock in that series.

I understand the general frustration I really do but they are not a disgrace or anything.

I know. I just had a look at their records since January 2012 and truth is I'd forgotten a couple of tons each from Trott & Cook at various points along the way. And obvs I know about Cook in India. And in case there's any doubt, I'm not suggesting dropping them. Or hanging them. But there is still a real sense of failing to push on from what they achieved in 2010/11, and that's what irks. Playing the great Aus sides from a few years ago, or playing SA recently, you knew that one or two of their big names would step up and play a daddy of an innings at the start of the series to set the tone. We, OTOH, seem to be playing catch-up more often than not having usually started the series really badly, batting wise. And, being honest, if Aus batting wasn't so gash we'd be well on the way to 0-2 by now.

 

[wpdavid]

Interestingly, despite 4 of the top 5 having averages above 45, none of them have averaged that much since the start of 2012: Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Says it rather better than my ramblings.

 

[Furball]

Trott's not out of form at all, he's just doing an impersonation of Shane Watson and finding ways of getting out when he's well set.

 

[Cabinet96]

I think what worries me most, is that in the last 18 months, there have only been three 150+ scores. That was one of the biggest philosophies of the more successful England side of the early 10's. In the 18 months leading up to when we got to number one, there are at least 12 (I count 12 in my memory, but I've probably forgotten a few). That's a massive drop in standards. You can say the attacks we've faced are better, and I'll agree, but if you can get to 30, 60, or even 120, then surely you can make 150+ scores? And yet it hasn't happened. I posted that stat yesterday about how Trott's conversion rate had halfed since the start of 2012, and I also think it's been Bell's biggest issue in the last 18 months. Cook has been OK, the only person with a more than 50% conversion rate, and KP has had three big scores, but the rest just haven't been doing it. Bell has been really good so far this series, but he could still be getting more. For example, he's scored two centuries in his first three innings, and has therefore scored 243 runs. Alastair Cook scored two centuries in his first three innings in Australia and had scored 450 runs.