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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Harsh.skm. For your Eng team I suggest punting Sidebottom for FR Foster.
Good suggestion man :) I opened a separate thread for this though, so I think we should take this there. The only thing is that he was sort of an all-rounder (he has a FC triple hundred), and I don't think I can take him on since he bats right handed.

P.S. Just call me Harsh :)
 
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the big bambino

International Captain
Good suggestion man :) I opened a separate thread for this though, so I think we should take this there. The only thing is that he was sort of an all-rounder (he has a FC triple hundred), and I don't think I can take him on since he bats right handed.

P.S. Just call me Harsh :)
:) Actually Voce and Underwood batted right handed. :) But I think I see your distinction. Batting wasn't their strong suit but with Foster it was more of a factor in his play. Is that right?
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
:) Actually Voce and Underwood batted right handed. :) But I think I see your distinction. Batting wasn't their strong suit but with Foster it was more of a factor in his play. Is that right?
Yeah, my rule is that specialist bowlers can bat right handed but nor all-rounders.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Okay, who do you guys think would win a match played between the following two teams:

Team I

Jack Hobbs
Barry Richards

Don Bradman
Viv Richards
Graeme Pollock
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist (w)

Malcolm Marshall
Dennis Lillee
Muttiah Muralitharan
Glenn McGrath

Team II

Len Hutton
George Headley

Brian Lara
Sachin Tendulkar
Greg Chappell
Jacques Kallis
Andy Flower (w)

Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Curtly Ambrose
 
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Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Okay, who do you guys think would win a match played between the following two teams:

Team I Team II

Jack Hobbs Len Hutton
Barry Richards George Headley

Don Bradman Brian Lara
Viv Richards Sachin Tendulkar
Graeme Pollock Greg Chappell
Garry Sobers Jacques Kallis
Adam Gilchrist (w) Andy Flower (w)

Malcolm Marshall Richard Hadlee
Dennis Lillee Wasim Akram
Muttiah Muralitharan Shane Warne
Glenn McGrath Curtly Ambrose
I can't see anyone answering Team II tbh. Definitely looks like someone has picked Team I as an ATWXI and either the same person or someone else has picked Team II from the leftovers.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I can't see anyone answering Team II tbh. Definitely looks like someone has picked Team I as an ATWXI and either the same person or someone else has picked Team II from the leftovers.
Some might think that Team II's bowling is more dynamic.
 

Mike5181

International Captain
There's no massive difference between the teams or anything, but the Bradman factor, and the fact team two is using Flower as keeper puts things in favour of team one.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Okay, who do you guys think would win a match played between the following two teams:

Team I

Jack Hobbs
Barry Richards

Don Bradman
Viv Richards
Graeme Pollock
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist (w)

Malcolm Marshall
Dennis Lillee
Muttiah Muralitharan
Glenn McGrath

Team II

Len Hutton
George Headley

Brian Lara
Sachin Tendulkar
Greg Chappell
Jacques Kallis
Andy Flower (w)

Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Curtly Ambrose
What about these sides?

Team I

Jack Hobbs
Barry Richards

Don Bradman
Viv Richards
Graeme Pollock
Jacques Kallis
Alan Knott (w)

Malcolm Marshall
Dennis Lillee
Muttiah Muralitharan
Glenn McGrath

Team II

Len Hutton
George Headley

Brian Lara
Sachin Tendulkar
Wally Hammond
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist (w)

Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Curtly Ambrose
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
What about these sides?

Team I

Jack Hobbs
Barry Richards

Don Bradman
Viv Richards
Graeme Pollock
Jacques Kallis
Alan Knott (w)

Malcolm Marshall
Dennis Lillee
Muttiah Muralitharan
Glenn McGrath

Team II

Len Hutton
George Headley

Brian Lara
Sachin Tendulkar
Wally Hammond
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist (w)

Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Curtly Ambrose
Get Imran in for Wasim and you've almost sold me with Team II. I can't quite stop myself from thinking Team I's batting will just have a significant edge with Bradman though.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
This'd be my top two teams (today):


Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Greg Chappell
Viv Richards
Garry Sobers
Allan Knott
Imran Khan
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Curtly Ambrose


Gordon Greenidge
Sunil Gavaskar
George Headley
Graham Pollock
Wally Hammond
Sachin Tendulkar
Adam Gilchrist
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Bill O'Reilly
Glenn McGrath
 
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Coronis

International Coach
This'd be my top two teams (today):


Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Greg Chappell
Viv Richards
Garry Sobers
Allan Knott
Imran Khan
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Curtly Ambrose


Gordon Greenidge
Sunil Gavaskar
George Headley
Graham Pollock
Wally Hammond
Sachin Tendulkar
Adam Gilchrist
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Bill O'Reilly
Glenn McGrath
No Murali?
 

kyear2

International Coach
When we rank players, both batsmen and bowlers we tend to do so based so much on average, but should we. For bowlers, is average more important than strike rate or wpm? Even more importantly for batsmen actual runs scored per match and scoring rate should factor a lot more than simply batting average especially for those who hedge their batting average by batting slowly and accumulating not outs. Which is more indicative of actual production?
 

smash84

The Tiger King
When we rank players, both batsmen and bowlers we tend to do so based so much on average, but should we. For bowlers, is average more important than strike rate or wpm? Even more importantly for batsmen actual runs scored per match and scoring rate should factor a lot more than simply batting average especially for those who hedge their batting average by batting slowly and accumulating not outs. Which is more indicative of actual production?
In 5 days of cricket the batting SR is not that significant a factor unless you are batting extremely slow.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
In 5 days of cricket the batting SR is not that significant a factor unless you are batting extremely slow.
I remember being very surprised when I first checked out Greg Chappell's SR and Tendulkar's SR. They were not high at all, but I never felt that they were slow players. I guess having a Bradman (aside from his average), or Barry Richards or Sehwag makes some difference though.

All in all, I guess the old saying holds: If all else is equal, .....
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
When we rank players, both batsmen and bowlers we tend to do so based so much on average, but should we. For bowlers, is average more important than strike rate or wpm? Even more importantly for batsmen actual runs scored per match and scoring rate should factor a lot more than simply batting average especially for those who hedge their batting average by batting slowly and accumulating not outs. Which is more indicative of actual production?
All stats, in isolation, are something of a blunt instrument, which is why we can have these debates without anyone being able to put forward a conclusive argument. Averages have stood the test of time, and over an entire career are the best starting point for First Class cricket without a doubt. Of course for limited overs cricket and, the more so, T20, they are rather less helpful
 

kyear2

International Coach
I remember being very surprised when I first checked out Greg Chappell's SR and Tendulkar's SR. They were not high at all, but I never felt that they were slow players. I guess having a Bradman (aside from his average), or Barry Richards or Sehwag makes some difference though.

All in all, I guess the old saying holds: If all else is equal, .....
Spoke to some former W.I players and asked about Chappell in general, one said that while he was a great batsman, he would just be batting and nudging the ball, taking singles and twos and then you would look up and he was fifty. Of course he would put away the over pitched (bad) delivery, but he hardly played outside the V or took chances.
Tendulkars s/r also surprised me, especially bating at four.

I was mainly talking about Kallis and Chanderpaul, s/r in the 40's and both with more than 40 n.o's.
 

Flem274*

123/5
A bit bored.

Hobbs
Grace
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Kallis
Gilchrist (wk)
Miller
Imran (c)
Hadlee
Warne

That number four position could have gone to one of many. Warne edges out Murali based on batting and fielding. In other news I really rate allrounders.

If I wanted to make a side to face another world eleven, then knowing I'd be faced with some West Indian quicks, McGrath, Murali, Hammond, Lara, Ponting etc I'd like to bat down to 10 with allrounders and have about 10,000 bowling options including four ATG bowlers. I'd back the relative lack of batting and bowling depth in the other side to be their downfall because my team just keeps going.
Still not sure on that number four position, but other than that I'm surprised by how much I still agree with this team considering how close it is at the top and I'm not very consistent. If I knew more about a few of the great South African allrounders I might be tempted but otherwise I think the above pretty much comprises the best 11 cricketers ever to take the field.

Best eleven I've seen

1. Matt Hayden
2. Graeme Smith
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Brian Lara
6. Jacques Kallis
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Shane Warne
9. Dale Steyn
10. Muttiah Muralitharan
11. Glenn McGrath
I think Cook is very close to pushing out Haydos in that side, but I might be biased towards him because Cook's exploits are more recent in my mind.

A random kiwi ATG eleven from me:

Dempster
Turner
Sutcliffe
Crowe (c)
Donnelly
J.R. Reid
C. Cairns
Hadlee
Parore (wk)
Bond
Cowie

Bruce Taylor, J.F. Reid and Ross Taylor all generally unlucky. Gloves could easily have gone to Smith or McCullum. I'm unsure how to rate McCullum due to him playing only half of his career as a keeper. If a match was played in the subcontinent Fleming would be the second batsman on the team sheet.

It's pretty sad most of our best are long gone and known mostly for their County exploits due to crazy selection policies and us playing so few tests in the early days.

And a current world eleven

Cook
Smith
Amla
Kallis
Clarke
Chanderpaul
Prior
Philander
Steyn
Ajmal
Anderson or Pattinson

Sorry Sanga, Swann and KP
 

Coronis

International Coach
What would your ATG Ashes XI look like?

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman*
Hammond
Chappell
Miller
Gilchrist +
Warne
Lillee
Barnes
McGrath

Heavily Australian, but hey, can you blame me?
 

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