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***Official*** Australia in India 2012/13

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Australian cricket needs the sympathy and support of its fans at this stage. It is a team that has been scraped down to the bones of all the flesh (barring Clarke) of the formidable sporting body it was a decade ago. The team is in its worse phase of transition. The phase where such a large number of its top cricketers left at the same time. A more gradual departure would have minimised the pain. This is where the departure of Mike Hussey could have been delayed. The sudden dip in Mitch Johnson's form is no help. The issues with Watson (whatever keeps him from bowling and opening the batting) compound the crisis.

This is no easy times. Yes it is a Test of the domestic set up but there will be dips. I have absolutely no doubt that Australia will pick up. This phase is transitory. I do have two worries which apply to everyone really but will hit a team suddenly deprived of TEST veterans much harder.

Firstly, the introduction of 20-20 tournaments in all countries is going to have an impact on batting skills. It doesn't matter whether one likes to admit it or not. This will show. Something needs to be done about it. It is difficult and Modi understood it that why the HUGE amounts paid to cricketers for very little work. He realised that international stars will not take this form of the game seriously thus he took the one weapon that always works on humans - greed. No one is able to escape it, cricketers, commentators and writers. Now everyone is hooked.

The second issue is the lack of exposure, over the last decade and a half, of the first class cricketers around the world to world class opponents from around the world in the first class game. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the many first class games that touring sides played on Test tours benefited both the visitors and the up coming cricketers of the host nation.

Countries where cricketers of the world came to play first class game during their own off seasons, became nurseries for great cricketers. The number of Pakistanis, West Indians, South Africans (despite their exclusion from international cricket). Kiwis, Srilankans, Indians who honed their skills in the English circuit, rubbing shoulders against the best in the world are legion. The seventies and eighties were more or less the richest, from resources point of view, in international cricket than any other era. I would beg to submit that the five month grind of the English season where most of these giants played each other was the most important reason for such a seemingly unending stream of international talent.

Australia too joined in with many sides sporting international stars who spent the English summer in England and then the winter down under.

With the huge increase in international cricket and the corresponding reduction in the participation of top cricketers in first class cricket except at home when available and the lack of exposure of the domestic players to world class talent has been bad for the game and this will show in the kind of talent that will come up from the first class level.

The game needs to take a very hard look at both the amount of cricket being played and the propensity of the shortest version of the game. One day the greed will kill the hen.
 
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Top_Cat

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There's that word again.

Look, it's a nebulous concept anyway but if your definition of 'transition' is 'the period between being number 1 once and then number 1 again' then yeah, the team's in transition. But then, it's limiting (and wrong, in my opinion) because, really, the Aussie team had several 'transitions' between various groups of players even while being undisputed number 1 and the WI team has been in transition since Pearl Jam released Better Man. So if you use that definition, the transition from world-beaters to where the team is at happened years ago.

The OZ system just isn't producing cricketers as good as others at the moment. They're not in transition, this is the team. They're just not as good as the other guys.
 
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Prince EWS

Global Moderator
There's that word again.

Look, it's a nebulous concept anyway but if your definition of 'transition' is 'the period between being number 1 once and then number 1 again' then yeah, the team's in transition. But then, it's limiting (and wrong, in my opinion) because, really, the Aussie team had several 'transitions' between various groups of players even while being undisputed number 1 and the WI team has been in transition since Pearl Jam released Better Man. So if you use that definition, the transition from world-beaters to where the team is at happened years ago.

The OZ system just isn't producing cricketers as good as others at the moment. They're not in transition, this is the team. They're just not as good as the other guys.
Best post.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
There's that word again.

Look, it's a nebulous concept anyway but if your definition of 'transition' is 'the period between being number 1 once and then number 1 again' then yeah, the team's in transition. But then, it's limiting (and wrong, in my opinion) because, really, the Aussie team had several 'transitions' between various groups of players even while being undisputed number 1 and the WI team has been in transition since Pearl Jam released Better Man. So if you use that definition, the transition from world-beaters to where the team is at happened years ago.

The OZ system just isn't producing cricketers as good as others at the moment. They're not in transition, this is the team. They're just not as good as the other guys.
Well said :-) I don't like the term as well but used it because it is popular currency. :-)

No I was nit referring to the number one position and the drop from it. I had written a few years ago,here on CC about how the Aussie team were all (most really) going to retire around the same time and that not enough youngsters had been breaking in to the side for a few years. I remember it was a detailed analysis of a long period before then showing who we're the regular side during a decade (I think it was decade wise) who retired during a decade and who made his debut. This is normally a continuous process. And naturally, all decades won't balance out the incoming talents with the outgoing ones hence teams will be better or worse than the earlier period.

However, sometimes, as then, no one had been coming through and most of the players were getting along in years. I had written specifically that if a number of really good youngsters do not appear on the horizon , Australia could see a bleak period. We are seeing that happening.

So I agree with you that not enough talent is coming through. What the reasons for that are is a matter of opinion. It could be multiple factors :-)
 

uvelocity

International Coach
The OZ system just isn't producing cricketers as good as others at the moment. They're not in transition, this is the team. They're just not as good as the other guys.
which other guys? it's conditions. we just pushed the clear #1's at home, we killed this same indian team in our home conditions. sl at home, wi away, sa away, sl away - none bar 47ao terrible. Sure we were thrashed in these last two tests, but put the team back at home, or most places and they will hold their own. Swinging conditions in England probably not one of those places let's admit though.
 

Top_Cat

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But they still lost to SA and really only truly pushed them in Adelaide.

Unusual conditions don't help, sure, and Aussies struggling in India and England is nothing new at all. And the gap between the top 4 teams isn't as great as, say, 4 and the rest. But we've had the players previously who could make the adjustment so, as usual, it's a combination of the players and conditions.

It's not just the home thing either, not many bats have really dominated for their states in the past 5 years. Probably shouldn't be a surprise then that they struggle when picked higher. The exact reasons? I dunno but there's far fewer Aussie blokes plying their trade in English FC cricket than there used to be.
 

Spikey

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I dunno but there's far fewer Aussie blokes plying their trade in English FC cricket than there used to be.

Not through lack of desire, just fr. the rules the ECB introduced around 09-10 have made it really hard.
 

Top_Cat

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Senile Sentry

International Debutant
CWing after a long gap so I will just jot down a few bullets :

  • Australia's fall as a test cricketing nation is unbelievable. The team is touted to be in transition but I am not sure after 6 years it can still be qualified as such.
  • Clarke - one man army indeed. But as a captain had his share of WTF moments in this test match. Nothing more obvious than his declaration on the first day. Yes, maybe it did not make much of a difference in the final analysis but you just do not declare on the first day of a test match in India. It smacked of arrogance and over confidence that the Indian openers would just roll over in front of a mediocre attack barring Pattinson. Not only that, it put tremendous pressure on the bowlers as well.
  • Dropping Lyon was a joke. Doherty and Maxwell would struggle to make the Saurashtra side, and this I say with a nod to their captain, the great Jaydev Shah.
  • Hughes is an impostor. I can't bring myself to imagine this was the guy who cut into the South African pace attack on his debut. His last 39 balls against spinners in this tour read 0 runs, 4 dismissals. One of the worst ever performances I can recount by a top end batsman in a series of late.
  • Watson is threading a very fine line. He is brought in as a frontline specialist batsman but I have always felt it was his bowling which was more effective than his batting in subcontinental conditions. He probably has a test more to prove his mettle but cannot continue to retain his place without delivering.
  • Cowan did what was expected out of him. A truly mediocre player. However given the empty cupboards, he has to and will occupy the top slot.
  • India is on a high and understandably so, but they must remind themselves till they win a series in Australia, no amount of home wins can erase the humiliation of the 4-0 whitewash. Plus the opposition was hardly test standard in the first two tests. I daresay Bangladesh would have put up a better show than this Australian team. So Gambhir & Co, stop tweeting and just go do your jobs.
  • Ashwin was made to look much better than he actually is, again. Not that Indians would be complaining but it is sad to see test cricket celebrating mediocre bowlers like Ashwin who has now taken 9 fifers in his first 14 test matches. Big number that but do not forget a big chunk of those have come against substandard batting on helpful conditions.
  • Jadeja justified his selection with a very satisfying outing as a bowler and a fielder. However he still needs to contribute with the bat and justify the no.7 slot he is occupying. Here is a talent worth persisting with in the long run.
  • Harbhajan just has to go. Looked completely out of his depth and even though he got wickets, they were primarily gifts. India should look to breed a successor for him. The bad news is that like Australian batsmen, quality Indian spinners are now becoming a rare species. Ojha looks the best bet and I hope he is drafted in for the next test.
  • Bhuvaneshwar Kumar surprisingly overdelivered. But in the long run does not promise to do anything more than doing the customary take the shine off trundling. Ishanth Sharma is a joke.
  • Sehwag too must get the stern message. India cannot afford to carry dead weights in this team, regardless of the circumstances and opposition. He has sadly lost his best asset, eyes, if the glasses are anything to go by. Even the great Sir Viv was reduced to a shadow after losing his eyes.
  • Pujara - absolutely wonderful talent to reckon with.
  • Vijay - survived some tense moments, is still suspect for his temperament and technique but has earned a extended run with the hundred in the last match. Not great news for team India in the long run, Rahane has to be groomed in.
  • Overall, except for Pujara's innings, the last test was a forgettable venture as a test cricket fan. Hopefully Australia will step up and test India so that the paying public gets its due. It'd rather better!
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
CWing after a long gap so I will just jot down a few bullets :

  • Australia's fall as a test cricketing nation is unbelievable. The team is touted to be in transition but I am not sure after 6 years it can still be qualified as such.
  • Clarke - one man army indeed. But as a captain had his share of WTF moments in this test match. Nothing more obvious than his declaration on the first day. Yes, maybe it did not make much of a difference in the final analysis but you just do not declare on the first day of a test match in India. It smacked of arrogance and over confidence that the Indian openers would just roll over in front of a mediocre attack barring Pattinson. Not only that, it put tremendous pressure on the bowlers as well.
  • Dropping Lyon was a joke. Doherty and Maxwell would struggle to make the Saurashtra side, and this I say with a nod to their captain, the great Jaydev Shah.
  • Hughes is an impostor. I can't bring myself to imagine this was the guy who cut into the South African pace attack on his debut. His last 39 balls against spinners in this tour read 0 runs, 4 dismissals. One of the worst ever performances I can recount by a top end batsman in a series of late.
  • Watson is threading a very fine line. He is brought in as a frontline specialist batsman but I have always felt it was his bowling which was more effective than his batting in subcontinental conditions. He probably has a test more to prove his mettle but cannot continue to retain his place without delivering.
  • Cowan did what was expected out of him. A truly mediocre player. However given the empty cupboards, he has to and will occupy the top slot.
  • India is on a high and understandably so, but they must remind themselves till they win a series in Australia, no amount of home wins can erase the humiliation of the 4-0 whitewash. Plus the opposition was hardly test standard in the first two tests. I daresay Bangladesh would have put up a better show than this Australian team. So Gambhir & Co, stop tweeting and just go do your jobs.
  • Ashwin was made to look much better than he actually is, again. Not that Indians would be complaining but it is sad to see test cricket celebrating mediocre bowlers like Ashwin who has now taken 9 fifers in his first 14 test matches. Big number that but do not forget a big chunk of those have come against substandard batting on helpful conditions.
  • Jadeja justified his selection with a very satisfying outing as a bowler and a fielder. However he still needs to contribute with the bat and justify the no.7 slot he is occupying. Here is a talent worth persisting with in the long run.
  • Harbhajan just has to go. Looked completely out of his depth and even though he got wickets, they were primarily gifts. India should look to breed a successor for him. The bad news is that like Australian batsmen, quality Indian spinners are now becoming a rare species. Ojha looks the best bet and I hope he is drafted in for the next test.
  • Bhuvaneshwar Kumar surprisingly overdelivered. But in the long run does not promise to do anything more than doing the customary take the shine off trundling. Ishanth Sharma is a joke.
  • Sehwag too must get the stern message. India cannot afford to carry dead weights in this team, regardless of the circumstances and opposition. He has sadly lost his best asset, eyes, if the glasses are anything to go by. Even the great Sir Viv was reduced to a shadow after losing his eyes.
  • Pujara - absolutely wonderful talent to reckon with.
  • Vijay - survived some tense moments, is still suspect for his temperament and technique but has earned a extended run with the hundred in the last match. Not great news for team India in the long run, Rahane has to be groomed in.
  • Overall, except for Pujara's innings, the last test was a forgettable venture as a test cricket fan. Hopefully Australia will step up and test India so that the paying public gets its due. It'd rather better!
Very good post

Stick around this time
 

pup11

International Coach
There's that word again.

Look, it's a nebulous concept anyway but if your definition of 'transition' is 'the period between being number 1 once and then number 1 again' then yeah, the team's in transition. But then, it's limiting (and wrong, in my opinion) because, really, the Aussie team had several 'transitions' between various groups of players even while being undisputed number 1 and the WI team has been in transition since Pearl Jam released Better Man. So if you use that definition, the transition from world-beaters to where the team is at happened years ago.

The OZ system just isn't producing cricketers as good as others at the moment. They're not in transition, this is the team. They're just not as good as the other guys.
There is gap of almost 24 months between the test debuts of Doherty and Maxwell and between that period 17 blokes made their test debuts and the thing is a lot of those guys are highly unlikely to play for Australia ever again.

So to say this is the team isn't really fair because for all we know a different set of players could be playing instead of these guys in a matter of few months, its really not a matter of finding the next Warne or Ponting its just about picking the best 15 players in Australia at this point of time which we certainly aren't doing atm.
 

Daemon

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"There was a bit of pressure on me. I just got married, and my wife was worried I should perform." - Pujara, after scoring his double century.

not convinced he was talking about cricket..
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Picking an Aus team for the next test, from all players (not just those in the squad):

Cowan
Warner
Hughes
Clarke (c)
Khawaja
Henriques
Haddin (wk)
O'Keefe
Starc/Johnson
Pattinson
Lyon

I think it's past time that we picked O'Keefe. The spinner with the best stats by a very long way in domestic cricket. Provides a different style of bowling to Lyon, who is the best spinner who's played a test.

Wade is unacceptably bad at keeping to spinners. He needs to go back and work on keeping to spin. Haddin will be a suitable replacement until our batting gets itself into gear enough so that we can pick Hartley, or until Nev has had another season under his belt. I still think that Wade could come back and become a top class player, but he has some technical keeping deficiencies that he needs to fix.

Hughes has been dire, yes, but he's still in the top 6 Australian batsmen.

Henriques is the best all-rounder in the country at present and it's nice to have a third seamer if we're going in with two front-line spinners.

Cowan holds onto his spot simply because there's no one ready to replace him.

It's about time that Uzi gets another shot.

Starc is our #1 left arm fast bowler, but Johnson could come into the side if the selectors need someone with less brittle bones. Pattinson should only be left out if the selectors feel that he would cop an injury if he played. Johnson at least has the firepower to get the Indian batsmen out. And he can't really do much worse than Siddle has.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Picking an Aus team for the next test, from all players (not just those in the squad):

Cowan
Warner
Hughes
Clarke (c)
Khawaja
Henriques
Haddin (wk)
O'Keefe
Starc/Johnson
Pattinson
Lyon

I think it's past time that we picked O'Keefe. The spinner with the best stats by a very long way in domestic cricket. Provides a different style of bowling to Lyon, who is the best spinner who's played a test.

Wade is unacceptably bad at keeping to spinners. He needs to go back and work on keeping to spin. Haddin will be a suitable replacement until our batting gets itself into gear enough so that we can pick Hartley, or until Nev has had another season under his belt. I still think that Wade could come back and become a top class player, but he has some technical keeping deficiencies that he needs to fix.

Hughes has been dire, yes, but he's still in the top 6 Australian batsmen.

Henriques is the best all-rounder in the country at present and it's nice to have a third seamer if we're going in with two front-line spinners.

Cowan holds onto his spot simply because there's no one ready to replace him.

It's about time that Uzi gets another shot.

Starc is our #1 left arm fast bowler, but Johnson could come into the side if the selectors need someone with less brittle bones. Pattinson should only be left out if the selectors feel that he would cop an injury if he played. Johnson at least has the firepower to get the Indian batsmen out. And he can't really do much worse than Siddle has.
Swap out Hughes, O Keefe and Haddin and put in Watson, Doherty and Wade instead and that would be the side I would pick for the 3rd test for Australia. Of course, I do not follow the team much outside internationals and I will be just picking based on what I have seen (or not seen) in this series so far...
 

pup11

International Coach
Are we sending a back up player for Bird or have we given up on this series already, the replacement player has to be SOK but given the kind of moves he has made recently its pretty unlikely he would be playing for Australia anytime soon, in that case we should send Coulter-Nile who for me along with Richardson is the best exponent of reverse swing in Australia at present.

As big a problem batting might seem like atm, the fact of the matter is India now has managed to score 500 runs twice in this series on wickets that weren't exactly featherbeds, so no matter how well we bat in the remainder of this series, if the bowlers don't perform as a group then a comeback in this series highly unlikely.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I think you guys are underrating B Kumar. In combination with Umesh Yadav I think he will be a good bowler, especially outside of the subcontinent.

I also don't think Watson will do much better as an opener than he is now. He's just not that good anymore. Yes he was a good opener 2 years ago but even then he couldn't convert. Cowan remains a better option.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I also don't think Watson will do much better as an opener than he is now. He's just not that good anymore. Yes he was a good opener 2 years ago but even then he couldn't convert. Cowan remains a better option.
This. Watson really suffers a lot from not having much between the ears. He goes hard at the ball all the time and I've never really rated him for his batting alone, even when he was playing for QLD all those years ago. He either has to play as an all rounder (I've always rated his bowling abilities) or not at all.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Are we sending a back up player for Bird or have we given up on this series already, the replacement player has to be SOK but given the kind of moves he has made recently its pretty unlikely he would be playing for Australia anytime soon, in that case we should send Coulter-Nile who for me along with Richardson is the best exponent of reverse swing in Australia at present.

As big a problem batting might seem like atm, the fact of the matter is India now has managed to score 500 runs twice in this series on wickets that weren't exactly featherbeds, so no matter how well we bat in the remainder of this series, if the bowlers don't perform as a group then a comeback in this series highly unlikely.
We certainly have more bowling options than we do batting options at the moment, but it really is our batting that has let us down. The fact is that the bowling decks haven't suited our strengths and we don't have the spinners to exploit the conditions properly. And we've been subtly training our best spinner to bowl pies because tossing it up and finding edges or catching the batsman advancing down the pitch doesn't pick up wickets.

I for one think we should send over O'Keefe as Bird's replacement. With Johnson over there we don't really need another quick.
 

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