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***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Bahnz said:
Anyone think that Butler's late callup is a possible indication that New Zealand are leaning towards going into the 1st test with 4 seamers?
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I think so. I thought it was looking like B Martin was a certainty but the reports I've read in the media (which seem to be nearly always accurate at the moment) all talked about Wagner as a very likely starter even before Bracewell injured himself.

They may be just thinking 4 seamers for the first test only because it's Dunedin. Very very poor timing from Duhggeh.

I don't mind the Butler callup and if he can consistently bowl with the pace and seam movement he got in a couple of T20s he will do ok. Just ok. We do have to bear in mind though that Butler has been consistently outbowled by Wagner in Otago for the last five years - there has to be a reason for that, good season this year or no.

Lets be honest though - this is a far cry from the four-pronged pace attack we all thought we'd be fielding a few weeks ago. A lot on Southee and Boult now.
 
jcas0167

jcas0167

International Debutant
straw man said:
I think so. I thought it was looking like B Martin was a certainty but the reports I've read in the media (which seem to be nearly always accurate at the moment) all talked about Wagner as a very likely starter even before Bracewell injured himself.

They may be just thinking 4 seamers for the first test only because it's Dunedin. Very very poor timing from Duhggeh.

I don't mind the Butler callup and if he can consistently bowl with the pace and seam movement he got in a couple of T20s he will do ok. Just ok. We do have to bear in mind though that Butler has been consistently outbowled by Wagner in Otago for the last five years - there has to be a reason for that, good season this year or no.

Lets be honest though - this is a far cry from the four-pronged pace attack we all thought we'd be fielding a few weeks ago. A lot on Southee and Boult now.
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I wouldn't have minded them gambling on Gillespie for all out attack. :ph34r:
 
Binkley

Binkley

U19 Captain
jcas0167 said:
I wouldn't have minded them gambling on Gillespie for all out attack. :ph34r:
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From what I saw (on the TV news) and heard, Gillespie bowled very poorly for the NZXI. And he certainly bowled terribly for Wellington in their last FC match. I actually lost quite a lot of respect for Jamie Siddons who came out and said Gillespie was "booming it" (or somesuch) and deserved to be selected for NZ - when he was clearly only capable of jogging in and dobbing the ball down.

I am not sure if Gillespie has injury worries, but he is certainly not currently the bowler he has been in the past.

I do hope Wagner comes right. I know a few people here don't rate him, but he has looked a completely different bowler in international cricket to the guy I have seen in domestic cricket. If he can get over his nerves I really think he will surprise his doubters.

The past couple of FC matches on University Oval have seen lowish-middling first innings scores, followed by a runfest. So the selectors might be tempted to go with Martin over a fourth seamer.
 
wellAlbidarned

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Wagner needs to forget about being the big scary fast bowler he is in domestics basically, he's definitely got more in him than we've seen so far.
 
Prince EWS

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
straw man said:
I think so. I thought it was looking like B Martin was a certainty but the reports I've read in the media (which seem to be nearly always accurate at the moment) all talked about Wagner as a very likely starter even before Bracewell injured himself.

They may be just thinking 4 seamers for the first test only because it's Dunedin. Very very poor timing from Duhggeh.

I don't mind the Butler callup and if he can consistently bowl with the pace and seam movement he got in a couple of T20s he will do ok. Just ok. We do have to bear in mind though that Butler has been consistently outbowled by Wagner in Otago for the last five years - there has to be a reason for that, good season this year or no.

Lets be honest though - this is a far cry from the four-pronged pace attack we all thought we'd be fielding a few weeks ago. A lot on Southee and Boult now.
Click to expand...
It depends how much they're prepared to bowl Kane I reckon. Four specialist seamers + Kane seems a better balanced attack to me in NZ conditions than three specialist seamers + Bruce Martin + Kane.

But if Kane isn't really going to bowl much then three specialist seamers + Bruce Martin > Four specialist seamers bowling themselves into the ground.
 
Kippax

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Yep if some Wellington-style weather is on the cards, four seamers is just about out I'd have thought. Otherwise Fulton becomes captain after McCullum is banned.
 
Kippax

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Binkley said:
I actually lost quite a lot of respect for Jamie Siddons who came out and said Gillespie was "booming it" (or somesuch) and deserved to be selected for NZ - when he was clearly only capable of jogging in and dobbing the ball down.

I am not sure if Gillespie has injury worries, but he is certainly not currently the bowler he has been in the past.
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I'll just stop you there...

"I don't think he's any different from the guy who took two five-fors [for the Black Caps] last year. I can't believe he's not in there already," Siddons said.

Gillespie, "booming" through the crease - YouTube

Gillespie eventually becomes usable to a degree, like a Bic you've found in an old pencil case, but that really was pretty nasty used car yard stuff from Siddons.
 
straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Prince EWS said:
It depends how much they're prepared to bowl get Kane to chuck a few down I reckon. Four specialist seamers + Kane seems a better balanced attack to me in NZ conditions than three specialist seamers + Bruce Martin + Kane.

But if Kane isn't really going to bowl chuck a few down much then three specialist seamers + Bruce Martin > Four specialist seamers bowling themselves into the ground.
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I generally agree - I mean, we are talking Bruce Martin here - and I've fixed your post for you :)
 
straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
So the weather for tomorrow and the rest of the first test. Looks like typical Dunedin - around 20 degrees, wind and intermittent showers to break up the cricket.
 
Kippax

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
wellAlbidarned said:
Wagner needs to forget about being the big scary fast bowler he is in domestics basically, he's definitely got more in him than we've seen so far.
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Hesscum heard your beta male lack of intent was exposed by Tim Seifert, they say you couldn't be more wrong on that.

Wagner has kept in regular contact with New Zealand coach Mike Hesson, the man who originally recruited him for Otago ahead of the 2008-09 season.

"I spoke to Hess in India before I left. He said to work on a couple of things like getting my swing to return from good length deliveries and staying aggressive. He is one of the reasons I came here. He has been instrumental in my career and feeds me with a lot of confidence."

Hesson says Wagner is progressing well but despite four recent test losses, pace bowling remains an area with plenty of competition.

"Neil is continually working on improving his wrist position so he can swing the new and older ball consistently," says Hesson.

"The one thing you know about Neil is, if conditions suit and he gets an opportunity in the starting XI, he will never let you down."
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New Zealand skipper Brendon McCullum , who wants his bowlers to "fight fire with fire", says seamer Neil Wagner 's aggression is a key reason for his selection for the second and final cricket Test against South Africa.
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straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
it's good that NZ cricket players exhibit such professionalism in their drive to make up for lesser ability
 
Hurricane

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Good luck NZ. I am not expecting big things from Wagner.

The choice between Martin and Butler is irrelevant as both will be ineffective against England. If I was forced to be the person to pick between them I would pick Butler and hope we bowl first and that there is a lot in the pitch.
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Get the feeling sometimes that things just aren't coming together for Wagner. He needs a day when everything comes into alignment and it kick-starts a longer stint in the side. I think he has the tools but perhaps not the mental game to use them right at Test level.
 
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