***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

[Kippax]

Hah, meanwhile Mitch was enjoying a broccoli smoothie with Chris Martin at 7am on Saturday, queuing up some Joe Esposito and Tony Robbins mp3s as he hit the gym for rehab. He must be thrilled by how easy Dougeh looks like he's going to make this.

 

[Bahnz]

As bad as he's been, I'd back Wagner to come close to Bracewell's level of performance from the last twelve months. Think DG is pushing 50 average-wise in that time period.

It's true, Bracewell has averaged 45 in the last year. However, Wagner has averaged close to 70 in the same period (and was significantly outbowled by Bracewell in each of the matches that he played with him). Bracewell is also a better batsman (though probably only worth an extra 5 or 10 runs per innings at this stage of his career).

 

[straw man]

WAGner is going to prove all yous haters wrong.

Probably not... but someone had to say it.

Hopefully Duhg will be back for the second test.

 

[Blain]

Bracewell might be a better batsman, but what we have seen from Doug in tests so far Id expect Wagner to make more of an impact. Bowling wise, I think Wagner could do ok... Doug has been pretty **** for the last year (made the worst test team of 2012 didnt he?). Shame Mitch is out, he would have slotted in easily. Martin can bat aswell.

Anderson and Neesh aren't quite up to the 4th seamer role quite yet, due to injury mainly. Jimmy got hurt in the last innings didnt he? Heard he was off the field, thats why he didnt bowl much.

 

[Mike5181]

It's true, Bracewell has averaged 45 in the last year. However, Wagner has averaged close to 70 in the same period (and was significantly outbowled by Bracewell in each of the matches that he played with him). Bracewell is also a better batsman (though probably only worth an extra 5 or 10 runs per innings at this stage of his career).

Those numbers were taken from three test matches, Bracewell played eleven in that time period. As **** as he is, he's not a 70 average bowler. He wasn't out-bowled by Bracewell in the second test against West Indies either.

 

[straw man]

I think if Wagner can pull his head in a bit and be satisfied to focus on line, length and a bit of nibble off the pitch as a third seamer, he could do an adequate support job. But he has to know he is a support bowler and that his job is not to try to try to blast batsmen out (he will fail miserably at this), or to bowl as fast as possible and try to bounce batsmen. Tbf, Bracewell's been struggling with these concepts too.

Any chance of McClenaghan or even Wheeler for the third test? I guess Duhg should be back by then unless it's a particularly bad cut.

 

[Bahnz]

Those numbers were taken from three test matches, Bracewell played eleven in that time period. As **** as he is, he's not a 70 average bowler. He wasn't out-bowled by Bracewell in the second test against West Indies either.

The reason why there were only 3 test matches was because he bowled utter filth. He was given a second chance on a lively pitch against SA and produced more utter filth. He's been producing utter filth in the Plunket Shield for years in between the occasional gem, which most international level batsmen are able to deal with. Bracewell has had the odd rubbish spell in that period, but the reason why he played 11 matches was because he wasn't producing non-stop utter filth (although he was pretty awful in the first test v Sri Lanka).

 

[hendrix]

From everything you hear round the traps, this guy sounds like he's barely a shade or two under Ryder in the dickhead stakes. In the same ball park as a young Chris Cairns in his partying prime.

Nah.

He's fit and he works hard, I've got no problem with him having a drink. **** happens man, it's not the end of the world.

Sounds like a dumb incident, but nothing to overreact about.

 

[Mixmasterreece]

Nah.

He's fit and he works hard, I've got no problem with him having a drink. **** happens man, it's not the end of the world.

Sounds like a dumb incident, but nothing to overreact about.

From stories Ive head, he parties hard on tour.

No matter how hard you work, you're never going to reach your full potential if your pissing it up on tour.

 

[Kippax]

Any chance of McClenaghan or even Wheeler for the third test? I guess Duhg should be back by then unless it's a particularly bad cut.

Yes, Mitch I think still in the frame there.

Mar 2 Mitchell McClenaghan ‏@Mitch_Savage
@FaisalMcCullum fine running again which is good.

Wheeler got made 12th for Seedy in R1 due to not being right to back up after the four-dayer, presumably.

 

[Flem274*]

Wagner isn't even the third best left armer in the country tbh.

Would have had Wheeler and Milne/Butler as my two reserves had I picked the squad, but I think it's fair to give Wagner a fair crack considering his excellent fitness record and his success with Otago. It's not direness with one game in ten being excellent like Bahnz makes out.

That will be his test record ftr if he plays a significant amount.

 

[Bahnz]

Wagner isn't even the third best left armer in the country tbh.

Would have had Wheeler and Milne/Butler as my two reserves had I picked the squad, but I think it's fair to give Wagner a fair crack considering his excellent fitness record and his success with Otago. It's not direness with one game in ten being excellent like Bahnz makes out.

That will be his test record ftr if he plays a significant amount.

I'm not saying it's a case of 1 game in 10 being good. It's a case of 1 ball in 10 being good. In domestic cricket, those one off crackerjacks are often all it takes to grab a wicket. But (for the most part) they don't get wickets in test cricket. It takes sustained pressure and consistency to dislodge quality batsmen, which is why Wagner has failed so badly so far.

It's the same reason why guys like Nethula and Astle can pick up bundles of wickets in domestic cricket, and then look like part timers on the international stage.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm not saying it's a case of 1 game in 10 being good. It's a case of 1 ball in 10 being good. In domestic cricket, those one off crackerjacks are often all it takes to grab a wicket. But (for the most part) they don't get wickets in test cricket. It takes sustained pressure and consistency to dislodge quality batsmen, which is why Wagner has failed so badly so far.

It's the same reason why guys like Nethula and Astle can pick up bundles of wickets in domestic cricket, and then look like part timers on the international stage.

Tastle has been so dire in domestic cricket since he played that Test that I reckon he's probably bowled much worse overall than he did in that game tbh. A wicket with a good ball and not getting flogged by Sri Lankan batsmen was a very good effort compared to what he's dished up in the Plunket Shield this season. Lets try the opening batsman thing out again eh Toddy?

 

[Kippax]

Butler called in as Dougeh's cover btw.

 

[Prince EWS]

Butler called in as Dougeh's cover btw.

Great decision. Unfortunately he has minimal chance of getting a game.

Gillespie really did himself no favours in that warmup, did he... ?

 

[Immenso]

Butler called in as Dougeh's cover btw.

I was getting quite worried at how close Ryan McCone was to getting to a test call up.

Where the **** did that depth go.

Not that I'm wanting to hate on young domestic bowlers, but I don't see Test potential in McCone, and while good on him for an excellent domestic season, it was a worry with bowlers dropping like flies that he might end up holding the cherry.

 

[jcas0167]

Scyld Berry writes off NZ and gets this angry riposte in the comments (I wonder if GSaker is on cricketwebforum?). I've broken the text into paragraphs to make it more readable:

Mate you have shown little you know of NZ cricket. Currently NZ has the best crop of young players they have had for years but they have largely been ignored by NZ cricket selectors until the last 6 months or even now and they have been pig headed with an almost old boys club mentality.

Franklin should have been dropped years ago from the test squad and he was not the only one. They have two or three bowlers with serious pace (Milne(20yrs old) 150k+ injured and a much better bowler than he was a year ago- Bevan Small145k+ (21years) and McCleneghan(140k+) is also injured and have some good young batsmen as well. Rutherford at last has been picked and there are others. Cory Anderson who spanked the English attack in Queenstown out of the park was considered a batting prodigy playing top senior cricket at just 16 when still at school got but injury after injury but seems to have come right.

NZ is rebuilding but their ranking will rise in the next two years and it may well begin with this tour. People have gone on about NZ getting bowled out for under 50 in SA - but so to did Australia the tour b4 NZ for only 47 and Pakistan recently for 48 so maybe the SA attack is just an awesome attack and especially at home.

History doesn't mean that much on current teams once you go past a decade...different time and period. Test cricket has indeed died over the years in NZ but there is still some excitement around about some of the new blood coming through. Also remember my friend that the worlds no1 strike bolwer Shane Bond ( which he was at the time) was stupidly banned from playing test cricket fro two yeras by a dumb and stupid NZ cricket board because he played in India in the ODI internal competition. How times have changed. It was then that Kiwi's really backed away from the game. One of the most irresponsible decisions in the history of NZ test cricket and our test side suffered - BADLY.

McCullum will be a different player at no5 ( and he is a bloody good player anyway) Williamson has huge potential and Watling has shown both in SA and against England in Queenstown that he has some class. Those people saying foolish comments that Finn and Anderson had his measure in the ODI's are right and wrong. ODI is a different game and mindset and he opened - not his normal position. But Steyn - the worlds best bowler - has gone on record saying the Watling is a difficult batsmen to bowl to in long game - he doesn't give you many chances he says, and he rates him. He was facing the best attack in the world in SA and fast so don't be so sure about Finn and Anderson having his measure in the long game.

This series is going to surprise a few poms. Remember after Finn and Anderson, the English pace attack is nothing special and they can't bowl all day and Swan has not set the world on fire so far on this tour in any format. If NZ win the toss in Dunedin and bowl first ( Dunedin will move around early) with Southee who has taken 29 wickets at 17.3 in has last three test matches ( that is world class folks) England could be in for another rude awakening like the one they got in Queenstown. Hopefully this next few years will see some more responsible selections in the test side and give some of these young players more opportunities. Getting rid of Franklin is a start and believe it or not Guptil's injury may be a blessing in disguise at at test level he has failed to often in the long game despite his talent.

New Zealand v England: hosts unlikely to win a Test as T20 now priority - Telegraph

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Scyld Berry writes off NZ and gets this angry riposte in the comments (I wonder if GSaker is on cricketwebforum?). I've broken the text into paragraphs to make it more readable:



New Zealand v England: hosts unlikely to win a Test as T20 now priority - Telegraph

i dont know which was worse, the article or that reply, both completely biased.

 

[Kippax]

Quite funny Berry endorsing Fleming to be NZ coach there. I remember Fleming in particular calling him an idiot after he wrote this article -

Ross Taylor breaks the New Zealand mould - Telegraph

This is why there will be something seriously wrong with England, or the weather, if the hosts do not win this series 3-0. New Zealand will be overwhelmed by the occasion at Lord's, by the pace and bounce at Old Trafford and by the swing at Trent Bridge. Their lower order will scrap out some runs, they will fight to save every run in the field and they will make the most of what they have. But ultimately their batting is deficient, and for England to have played Andrew Flintoff would have been to take a sledgehammer to a nut.

Why on earth are England playing New Zealand in the first place? Indigent cousins have to be looked after, but to play them from February until the end of June is too much of a bad thing. To contest the Ashes next summer England now need opposition far more fibrous.

 

[Kippax]

The swing at Trent Bridge...

James Anderson 7-43 v New Zealand, 3rd Test 2008, Trent Bridge - YouTube Scyld wasn't wrong.