benchmark00
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Brett Lee was/is a skiddy bowler and has a fine one day record, not so superb test record.
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Dale Steyn vs Allan Donald vs Shaun Pollock
- Thread starter Mike5181
- Start date
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
I'd disagree but I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong. Reasonable minds can differ.
I have AD ahead, especially as we have the downside of his career included to analyze. I also loved watching Donald so that certainly plays a part.
I have not looked but I would also guess that AD did better against England than Aus and Steyn is the reverse so that plays into perceptions.
There is no doubt that it plays a role in my opinion that Donald was brilliant against England and Steyn has not quite hit those standards.
popepouri
State Vice-Captain
Pretty much.
Against Australia:
Donald: 14 matches 53 wickets @31
Steyn: 11 matches 57 wickets @27
Against England:
Donald: 17 matches 86 wickets @23
Steyn: 11 matches 46 wickets @32
akilana
International 12th Man
Imo, Steyn's record against England needs to be seen in context as last time was the only time he played a full series against England.
Satyanash89
Banned
I think whats more important is that in Donald's time, Australia's batting was way more powerful than it is now... vice versa for England's. Thats the only thing that could really explain those slightly high averages.
popepouri
State Vice-Captain
Steyn averaged 29 though.
The point about England vs Australia batsmen at different times makes a lot of sense. Who was England's best batsman during Donald's time? Thorpe?
Howe_zat
Audio File
Thorpe was England's best overall, but that's mostly because he was a far better player of spin than the rest of the lineup. England's best bat against the SA attack at the time was probably Atherton, who hit 3 hundreds against them.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...lve=2011;team=1;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...lve=2011;team=1;template=results;type=batting
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akilana
International 12th Man
There're series better understood without context, the ones you like.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Steyn's overtaken Donald ever so slightly IMO, just in the last series or two. It'd been obvious to me for a little while that it was likely he would eventually do it in my estimation but I think I'd now be happy enough, if Steyn retired now, to put him ahead of Donald, ever so slightly. My earlier posts in this thread from 2010 or whenever it was started actually ranked Pollock ahead of Donald which is something I don't even quite remember myself thinking, but there you go. I'd have him marginally behind now as a bowler, but still comfortably ahead as the best cricketer of the three.
Howe_zat
Audio File
Are you saying he's done anything different in the last year to make a difference, or you were just waiting for him to keep up the goods past the 300 mark?
As far as I can tell we've all pretty much been saying "well yeah... it's Steyn" when he does something gun now, rather than thinking he's breaking new ground. I think the 2010 he had, when he went pretty much all over the world and took bags against all of the top sides really showed he's got everything he needs, and it was just a case of waiting for the figures to roll in.
As far as I can tell we've all pretty much been saying "well yeah... it's Steyn" when he does something gun now, rather than thinking he's breaking new ground. I think the 2010 he had, when he went pretty much all over the world and took bags against all of the top sides really showed he's got everything he needs, and it was just a case of waiting for the figures to roll in.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
It was just a longevity thing for me really. You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere; I think he's passed it now. I don't think he's bowling better than he was before but he's maintained it for long enough now that if he retired tomorrow I'd put him ahead of Donald by a whisker. if he retired a year ago I'd have Donald ahead by a whisker. Realistically I see them basically as equals but Steyn is unlikely to retire any time soon anyway so there's an excellent chance I'll have him conclusively ahead by then.
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Red
The normal awards that everyone else has
I could have just taken Donald or Steyn in the clause draft using the same clause. I took Donald. So I guess I still rate Donald slightly ahead of Steyn.
That said, there's nothing to split them as bowlers in my opinion. They sit in the very top tier of modern quick bowlers imo. Lillee, Marshall, Ambrose, Donald, Steyn, Waqar, Wasim, Imran etc etc.
Cabinet96
Hall of Fame Member
Was only this time last year, FTR. In fact, it feels much more recent to me than that. Few months ago recent, in fact.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Well a few months ago I still had Donald slightly ahead of Steyn. I can't remember deciding I thought Pollock was better than them on bowling alone though. I was probably just being a bit biased; love me some Shaun Pollock.
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
At a time when he had taken about 300 wickets, Pollock had the best bowling average for any bowler with more than 200 wickets in test history. That's no mean feet. He did go down considerably in latter 1/3rd of his career and I agree that he is in sum below Donald and Steyn but he must have been doing something right in the first 2/3rd of his career to outperform Donald statistically. Don't remember that he was getting that kind of credit even at that stage. Why was that?
