***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

[Zinzan]

Interesting article from Victor Marks in today's Observer ahead of the tour.

Effectively says NZ used to maximise their talent to compete but are failing to do so now. Also makes the very reasonable point that teams don't necessarily have to love each other to pull in the same direction:

Well, Vic was half-right re the Coney/Hadlee spat, but it was when the Windies toured NZ in 87' and not in the Caribbean. The reason for the spat was that Hadlee decided he should keep the car he won for being the B & H player of the season in Australia as opposed to selling it and sharing the profits with the team which had been standard protocol.

The hilarious thing about this little spat is whilst they weren't talking the Windies batsmen repeatedly edged Hadlee to Coney at slip, which made it all the more awkward. Watch both players reactions here

 

[jcas0167]

Well, Vic was half-right re the Coney/Hadlee spat, but it was when the Windies toured NZ in 87' and not in the Caribbean. The reason for the spat was that Hadlee decided he should keep the car he won for being the B & H player of the season in Australia as opposed to selling it and sharing the profits with the team which had been standard protocol.

I think that was part of it, also Hadlee was critical of the teams professionalism in a newspaper column before, or maybe during, that Windies series. Coney & Turner weren't impressed.

he was playing for Australia, this would no longer be an issue. He would be gone, simple as that.

There's a player in Australia called Luke Pomersbach who seems quite similar to Ryder in age, playing style, talent and off-field issues (tbf, Pomersbach's seem more serious).

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

There's a player in Australia called Luke Pomersbach who seems quite similar to Ryder in age, playing style, talent and off-field issues (tbf, Pomersbach's seem more serious).

Indeed. The issues seem much more serious in many ways. But I don't get the feeling that Australia have completely written him off playing for them - maybe some Aussies know better though? (seeing as my only reference is C9 commentary during the Big Bash)

 

[Bahnz]

I wonder how much money has been spent along the way. All the thousands and thousands of dollars put behind him for coaching, fixing all those injuries etc. Does that all mean nothing? What about the name recognition he gained by playing for New Zealand? That enabled him to take lucrative T20 contracts. That's something he wouldn't have been able to do without NZC. The amount of chances he's had is ridiculous, and despite all that, he continues to play and act like a ****wit. If he was playing for Australia, this would no longer be an issue. He would be gone, simple as that. He doesn't deserve to play internationals, he's just incredibly lucky he's so talented, and New Zealand has an ordinary team. I'd much rather support hard-working guys like Williamson, Taylor, Guptill, Flynn etc.

I think Ryder would've made a lot more money for the NZC, and raised a lot more interest in the game, than has been spent on him. He pretty much single-handedly generated signficant public interest in the HRV Cup this season and is probably close to being the most well known cricketer in the country.

As for acting like a ****wit, I don't think you can seriously say he's done anything of the kind since he stood down from international cricket (unless you count that ridiculous sojourn in the boxing ring). As has been noted before, he's not the first international to take an indefinite timeout from the game, and he's not doing it just so that he can grab sum T20 cash (otherwise he would've ****ed off to the Big Bash this summer). He just doesn't believe he's ready for international cricket yet.

It'd be great if Ryder had the dedication and ambition of Flynn or Guptill. He doesn't, and he's still better than those two will ever be. Life's unfair, deal with it. And while it's understandable that you're disappointed that he won't be playing against England, he's decided that it's ultimately what's best for his batting in the long run.

In any case, I hope he returns to the New Zealand side later this year (the away series v Bangladesh now seems the soonest likely return).

 

[Kippax]

As for acting like a ****wit, I don't think you can seriously say he's done anything of the kind since he stood down from international cricket (unless you count that ridiculous sojourn in the boxing ring).

Why is he batting the way he is in FC if not attitude though, is what Mike and Neil Young were maybe getting at. There was maybe a brief moment in that video where he tried to hold the pose, like a drunk in a 'yeah, I'm serious and solid' moment.

Unfortunately you get the feeling the work required to wean himself out of the bad habits will never quite have a pressing enough catalyst to occur. McMillan making his last test ton at 29 also had more than a hint of that depressing, lower socio girl lost it quicker due to bad maintenance feel to it.

 

[Bahnz]

Why is he batting the way he is in FC if not attitude though, is what Mike and Neil Young were maybe getting at. There was maybe a brief moment in that video where he tried to hold the pose, like a drunk in a 'yeah, I'm serious and solid' moment.

Unfortunately you get the feeling the work required to wean himself out of the bad habits will never quite have a pressing enough catalyst to occur. McMillan making his last test ton at 29 also had more than a hint of that depressing, lower socio girl lost it quicker due to bad maintenance feel to it.

Yeah, ok fair enough. McMillan was such an annoying player. Sooo much talent pissed down the drain. Still remember that shot he played in the 2007 CH trophy when he shuffled to off and squared up in an attempt to flick the ball to fine leg, and then when the bowler bowled a yorker a meter outside off stump, he deliberately sliced it passed third man for four.

 

[Hurricane]

In his current morph, we can. He would be a massive liability. When he grows up, he'll massively regret this and I hope it eats him alive. I say this as a staunch Wellngtonian and, up until the last few weeks, a massive Ryder fan.

Indeed in his current morph. But that is temporary. He can and will get his desire back.

And that is the Ryder we need to make allowances for and help along the road.

In my 3rd post ever on CW - I made the point that NZ has a limited talent pool. We can't really afford to have people retiring at 31. We need our top players to last until 35 at least.

Likewise if we ever have an Andrew Symonds style drunk who doesn't listen to the rules playing for us then we can't afford to caste him off forever when he transgresses. We just don't have the talent pool to be quick about ending player careers.

 

[Prince EWS]

Indeed. The issues seem much more serious in many ways. But I don't get the feeling that Australia have completely written him off playing for them - maybe some Aussies know better though? (seeing as my only reference is C9 commentary during the Big Bash)

If Pomersbach hits enough runs then he'll get in the side, but I think he's lucky in some ways that his indiscretions occurred when he was nowhere near the Australian setup anwyay. If he did something like that while on tour with the Australian team he'd have his cards marked.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I'd be pretty annoyed if Pomersbach was accepted into the Australian fold as if nothing had ever happened.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I'm not understanding this "we can't afford to let Ryder go" argument

Yes we can. He has the potential to be good enough if he puts just a pinch of determination into his work. If he dicks around and tries to ramp test quality opening bowlers then he's clearly not good enough. Players who aren't good enough don't play, enough of this "but heeez sooo taluntid!" BS.

 

[Athlai]

I'm not understanding this "we can't afford to let Ryder go" argument

Yes we can. He has the potential to be good enough if he puts just a pinch of determination into his work. If he dicks around and tries to ramp test quality opening bowlers then he's clearly not good enough. Players who aren't good enough don't play, enough of this "but heeez sooo taluntid!" BS.

He might be showing a few silly shots in the domesticz but it would be ridiculous to use that as a basis for him being an inferior Test bat to some of the guys we're playing at the moment. Showing disdain for our domestic bowlers and international bowlers are completely different things, especially considering how successful he has been this season anyway. On talent and in form he deserves a go in Test cricket again, if he fails there then we can bemoan his "lack of determination".

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I just think it's pretty likely that much of his looseness from domestics is going to creep over into tests, because he hasn't been practising proper test batting at all. I wouldn't be violently opposed to him playing if he made himself available, but it's not some massive tragedy like some are making out. He'd be a 20(15) specialist, which we really don't need.

 

[Athlai]

Dilshan, Sehwag and Gayle aren't "proper" Test bats either though. Doesn't make them any less effective a Test batsman though. I'd definitely back Ryder to score more runs than anyone barring current Taylor and a future Williamson.

Whether he does this with a SR of 40 or a SR of 80 I don't really mind. As long as he scores more runs than the next guy.

Sure it'd be brilliant if he could be Tendulkar but we should use what we're given.

 

[Neil Young]

I'm not understanding this "we can't afford to let Ryder go" argument

Yes we can. He has the potential to be good enough if he puts just a pinch of determination into his work. If he dicks around and tries to ramp test quality opening bowlers then he's clearly not good enough. Players who aren't good enough don't play, enough of this "but heeez sooo taluntid!" BS.

Exactly, already.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Do people just not care any more?

Heh that is hideous.

Reminds me of when we first played cricket at secondary school and total newbies would just kinda go round-arm for the first half of the action, then the rest was just an overhead throw.

 

[hendrix]

Do people just not care any more?

I don't get it either.

There are some blatant chuckers who have not had any questions asked.

And then you have people like Marlon Samuels, who's bowling ban came at the same time as him being stood down for matchfixing (I think) and yet has been allowed to bowl since then.

Bhupinder Singh anyone?

 

[BeeGee]

I don't want Ryder in the team until he proves he can behave professionally, both on and off the field. There is a minimum standard of behaviour and attitude which MUST be met before talent and ability are even considered.

 

[straw man]

Hmmm.

Cricket | Daniel Vettori's test chances remain 'slim'... | Stuff.co.nz

Daniel Vettori says his chances of playing the three-test series against England remain slim, with the return tour in May-June a more realistic goal. And New Zealand's top strike bowler Tim Southee is an unconfirmed starter against England as he makes a measured recovery from thumb surgery.

Wondering if Vettori will ever be back tbh. Hard to believe that Southee won't be fit though. I think I read that his injured thumb (left hand) will be assessed mid Feb, so 'unconfirmed' may just mean they're being conservative until then.

Test incumbent Patel's return to Plunket Shield cricket with Wellington has been delayed indefinitely as he comes to terms with the death of his mother.

Sad news for Jeets

 

[Kippax]

Shaila Patel, mother of Kiwi cricketer Jeetan Patel, expired in a city hospital where she was treated after she took ill on January, 17, 2013. She had come to her native village of Bhuvasan in Bardoli taluka of Surat district last month for an occasion. Patel rushed to India from South Africa where he was touring with Kiwi team.

Feel for Jeets, horrible.

 

[Flem274*]

rip