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***Official*** England in New Zealand series 2013

straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
jcas0167 said:
Alderson on picking Nathan McCullum as the test spinner.
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Alderson has gone crazy. Bracket NcCullum with Ellis as a test allrounder who:
  • won't score runs
  • won't take wickets
  • at best, may bowl some overs that don't concede many runs

If we want someone to fill in for Vettori, bowl a bit of spin and bat well enough to allow us to play four seamers, then surely Todd Astle is the man.

Still not sure if that's the way I'd go, but definitely not NcCullum.
 
wellAlbidarned

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Reality - our spinners suck. We don't have one worth picking. Can we move on now? Imagine trying to explain to an american baseball fan the idea of picking a far inferior player purely on the basis that he bowls the ball much slower than his competition. It starts to sound pretty stupid from that angle.
 
D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Guptill
McCullum
Sinclair
Williamson
Taylor
Brownlie
Watling +
Astle
Southee
Boult
MitchM

Sinclair :wub:
 
Days of Grace

Days of Grace

International Captain
straw man said:
Alderson has gone crazy. Bracket NcCullum with Ellis as a test allrounder who:
  • won't score runs
  • won't take wickets
  • at best, may bowl some overs that don't concede many runs

If we want someone to fill in for Vettori, bowl a bit of spin and bat well enough to allow us to play four seamers, then surely Todd Astle is the man.

Still not sure if that's the way I'd go, but definitely not NcCullum.
Click to expand...
NcCullum might be as good as any other option, tbh. Batting is a tad underrated. And he'll probably keep it tight. Sad state of affairs though when he becomes a geniune spinning option.
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
straw man said:
Alderson has gone crazy. Bracket NcCullum with Ellis as a test allrounder who:
  • won't score runs
  • won't take wickets
  • at best, may bowl some overs that don't concede many runs

If we want someone to fill in for Vettori, bowl a bit of spin and bat well enough to allow us to play four seamers, then surely Todd Astle is the man.

Still not sure if that's the way I'd go, but definitely not NcCullum.
Click to expand...
Agree. Don't let NcCullum anywhere near the test side even if he is part of the Love boat.
 
BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Interesting article from Victor Marks in today's Observer ahead of the tour.

Effectively says NZ used to maximise their talent to compete but are failing to do so now. Also makes the very reasonable point that teams don't necessarily have to love each other to pull in the same direction:

Vic Marks said:
there was a famous Test when Coney was in charge in the Caribbean in 1987, in which the captain and Hadlee were not talking, but New Zealand won anyway. But they knew how to support one another. There was plenty of pragmatism between the theorising: the Kiwis always like a theory. And come what may, the best players played.
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Neil Young

Neil Young

State Vice-Captain
Had it with Ryder. He can take his talents and attitude to the t20 gravy train. I want players who want to play and will take it seriously when they do.
 
Neil Young

Neil Young

State Vice-Captain
Hurricane said:
NZ can't afford to give up on him. Someone needs to have a word with him.
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In his current morph, we can. He would be a massive liability. When he grows up, he'll massively regret this and I hope it eats him alive. I say this as a staunch Wellngtonian and, up until the last few weeks, a massive Ryder fan.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Neil Young said:
In his current morph, we can. He would be a massive liability. When he grows up, he'll massively regret this and I hope it eats him alive. I say this as a staunch Wellngtonian and, up until the last few weeks, a massive Ryder fan.
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No we can't. Ryder is one of two genuinely top class batsmen in the country (not counting Kane yet as he's still at least a couple of years away). Those filling in for him have been found to be sub-standard. As for him being a liability, you could've said the same about Chris Cairns back in the mid-90's. Didn't mean that New Zealand Cricket could afford to give him the finger and give up on his considerable talents. It's awful to say, but the same rules don't apply to top talent, especially in a country like New Zealand.

I'm not saying that I'm pleased that Jesse isn't coming back (though I do already have a couple of ideas for Howsie's avatar), but nor do I think that people should knee-jerk in this situation. Nothing's really changed. As much as we may not like it, Jesse isn't obligated to play for New Zealand. If he doesn't feel that he's ready, (and he's almost certainly right given how rubbish his batting has been in the Plunket Shield) then he shouldn't be playing. All we can do is hope that he changes his mind in time, and be ready to provide the best environment for his talents when he does.
 
NZTailender

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Would be better if Ryder comes back in June for the long term rather than rushing him back now only to go down the same road and sit out another 12 months after playing for 6 months.
 
Mike5181

Mike5181

International Captain
Bahnz said:
No we can't. Ryder is one of two genuinely top class batsmen in the country (not counting Kane yet as he's still at least a couple of years away). Those filling in for him have been found to be sub-standard. As for him being a liability, you could've said the same about Chris Cairns back in the mid-90's. Didn't mean that New Zealand Cricket could afford to give him the finger and give up on his considerable talents. It's awful to say, but the same rules don't apply to top talent, especially in a country like New Zealand.

I'm not saying that I'm pleased that Jesse isn't coming back (though I do already have a couple of ideas for Howsie's avatar), but nor do I think that people should knee-jerk in this situation. Nothing's really changed. As much as we may not like it, Jesse isn't obligated to play for New Zealand. If he doesn't feel that he's ready, (and he's almost certainly right given how rubbish his batting has been in the Plunket Shield) then he shouldn't be playing. All we can do is hope that he changes his mind in time, and be ready to provide the best environment for his talents when he does.
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I wonder how much money has been spent along the way. All the thousands and thousands of dollars put behind him for coaching, fixing all those injuries etc. Does that all mean nothing? What about the name recognition he gained by playing for New Zealand? That enabled him to take lucrative T20 contracts. That's something he wouldn't have been able to do without NZC. The amount of chances he's had is ridiculous, and despite all that, he continues to play and act like a ****wit. If he was playing for Australia, this would no longer be an issue. He would be gone, simple as that. He doesn't deserve to play internationals, he's just incredibly lucky he's so talented, and New Zealand has an ordinary team. I'd much rather support hard-working guys like Williamson, Taylor, Guptill, Flynn etc.
 
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