**Official** Super 8 Group 1 Discussion - Eng, WI, SL and NZ

[The_roc]

That margin of victory is not unusual, even at U11..

I use to play cricket as a 11yo. Don't think we scored 238 in the entire season!

 

[Neil Pickup]

I use to play cricket as a 11yo. Don't think we scored 238 in the entire season!

Well, Gwent U10 leaked 200+ to Devon & Herefordshire this summer, as well as having been 13/5 v Somerset when the rain came. Although they did manage to turn over Somerset & Devon at U11 level, but lost to Herefordshire who are desperately weak at that age group.

They are, however, arguably the strongest of the Welsh regions... their U11s posted 347/2 v Mid Glamorgan and won by 270 runs...

 

[Scaly piscine]

Well, when he was first picked last year, he was sharing the gloves with Brophy at Yorkshire and rarely kept in FC cricket. Kept a lot in the early season this year though, and that was probably during his best batting form.

~

I think it's pretty unfair to say you can't remember anything Keiswetter has done. He was part of a working opening partnership that played a big hand in us winning the last tournament, not to mention being man-of-the-match in the final. And in ODIs he did very well with the bat during the 2011 summer, and I remember being impressed with his keeping in the Australia series this year despite having been one of his biggest critics.

That said, it's pretty clear he's struggling right now and the middle of a tournament is not the time to be angsty over dropping people who aren't pulling their weight. He's clearly got a dispensable role in the side too - we have an opening bat at #3 and two other decent keepers in the middle order.

Sadly the two people who I think really should be in the side - Cook and Bell - aren't in the squad, but the options we do have aren't bad. Lumb has shown just as much as CK in the past and is unlikely to waste deliveries early on. Bopara can bat down the order and gives us a good bowling option.

It was the bowling and fielding that won the tournament. The batsmen just knocked off sub-par totals. All Kieswetter ever had to do was score at 7 an over, which is about all he seems capable of managing even when his limited boundary options come off. Lumb would score fast 15s and 20s, Kieswetter would just bat through and catch up towards the end, knowing the likes of Morgan and KP were in the middle order.

In fact he scored slowly against Pakistan and South Africa in the Super Eights. KP's knock in the final was far more valuable than Kieswetter's.

 

[theegyptian]

some of english journos have been tweeting that Bairstow has been practicing his keeping in training today. so the switcheroo could be on.

 

[Cabinet96]

I think it's pretty unfair to say you can't remember anything Keiswetter has done. He was part of a working opening partnership that played a big hand in us winning the last tournament, not to mention being man-of-the-match in the final. And in ODIs he did very well with the bat during the 2011 summer, and I remember being impressed with his keeping in the Australia series this year despite having been one of his biggest critics.

Massive AWTA. After he was recalled following the World Cup, he performed quite adequately in the 2011 summer and showed a lot of sings of improvement from the guy that was dropped the pervious year. He then had a slightly disappointing tour of India, like every batsmen, but ended it with a run a ball 60 odd in the final game. Then he was pushed down the order in ODI's, something which will obviously hinder a block and whack player like him, and he basically hasn't had the chance to have a proper innings since. In that time he has only got to bat a few times, in which he got a very valuable 43 partnering Pietersen in the final ODI of the Pakistan series, and chipped in a couple of times against SA. But really he's only had two chances to have a proper innings since going down the order. and he's scored 43 and 34 in them.

So of course it's going to be hard for him to do anything memorable. And with the vast spacing of T20I's, you can go 6 months without having a contribution in the format by having one bad game (See the West Indies T20 at home in June).

Now I think he isn't as good a T20 player as he is a List A player. He seems only really capable of scoring at 6-7 an over top, which isn't really good enough for T20, but it's brilliant in ODI's, and only Eoin Morgan gets close to matching his ODI strike rate.

But to me it just seems like there are a lot of people out to get Kieswetter. After every test series you hear people crying for Prior to play ODI's, despite the fact that he's been given loads of chances, some as recently as a year and a half ago, and yet he has a quite dreadful ODI record which is far worse than Kieswetters.

And he's still 24 FFS! He's got 4-5 years to improve before he reaches his peak. Remember the stick Bell got at 24?

 

[grecian]

Massive AWTA. After he was recalled following the World Cup, he performed quite adequately in the 2011 summer and showed a lot of sings of improvement from the guy that was dropped the pervious year. He then had a slightly disappointing tour of India, like every batsmen, but ended it with a run a ball 60 odd in the final game. Then he was pushed down the order in ODI's, something which will obviously hinder a block and whack player like him, and he basically hasn't had the chance to have a proper innings since. In that time he has only got to bat a few times, in which he got a very valuable 43 partnering Pietersen in the final ODI of the Pakistan series, and chipped in a couple of times against SA. But really he's only had two chances to have a proper innings since going down the order. and he's scored 43 and 34 in them.

So of course it's going to be hard for him to do anything memorable. And with the vast spacing of T20I's, you can go 6 months without having a contribution in the format by having one bad game (See the West Indies T20 at home in June).

Now I think he isn't as good a T20 player as he is a List A player. He seems only really capable of scoring at 6-7 an over top, which isn't really good enough for T20, but it's brilliant in ODI's, and only Eoin Morgan gets close to matching his ODI strike rate.

But to me it just seems like there are a lot of people out to get Kieswetter. After every test series you hear people crying for Prior to play ODI's, despite the fact that he's been given loads of chances, some as recently as a year and a half ago, and yet he has a quite dreadful ODI record which is far worse than Kieswetters.

And he's still 24 FFS! He's got 4-5 years to improve before he reaches his peak. Remember the stick Bell got at 24?

No-one here suggests Prior should play 50 over, yet there are better options in t20, and Prior could be one of them. I'm kind of ambivalent about CK in 50 overs stuff, he has a decent strike-rate which is better than most of them, but I would like to see Bairstow get a run with the gloves, as ATM, I can't see him doing worse.

 

[Bahnz]

Unfortunately, New Zealand's ODI is first of the two games. That has two negative implications for New Zealand's (undeserved) chances of making the semi's:

1) England will know what they need to achieve in advance - if there's any room for England to lose but still qualify, they'll be able to take advantage of it.

2) If New Zealand win, then Sri Lanka will have qualified for the semi's, lessening their motivation to whip England. Not to say that they'll throw the match or anything. But they'll lack the desperation of a potential knock-out game. Further, SL would have to be absolutely smoked by England to miss out on 1st place in their pool. Once again, they'll have foreknowledge of what they need to do in order to avoid such a scenario.

 

[Days of Grace]

Reckon that Sri Lanka wouldn't want to go into the semi's on the back of a loss and even if they only play at 80%, they should still have enough to beat England.


Also think that New Zealand HAVE to bat second tonight. Let's face it: if Gayle gets going, then 350 won't be big enough.

Let him do his thing, then bat second knowing what you need to get.

 

[Howsie]

As long as Southee plays Gayle won't be a factor

 

[Hurricane]

Jake may be back for the game. If so we should concede.

 

[Daemon]

nz need more ryder

 

[Hurricane]

nz need more ryder

Agreed.

 

[Daemon]

In all formats might I add

 

[Kippax]

More Jeets, more Ronchi, more everything from Dannevirke south. You know it.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

nz need more ryder

In all formats might I add

wellAlbidarned to rage

Oh look, here he is.

The moment Ryder shows an ability to string five solid games together in our ****ty domestic system is the moment we need him. No sooner. We're seriously not asking much of him.

 

[Hurricane]

Cricket | Jesse Ryder on right track | Stuff.co.nz

 

[straw man]

I will find it highly amusing if, having conspired to lose to all of Pakistan, Sri Lanka and England, we suddenly pull a win out of our arses, qualify for semis and win the title of 'most underserving semi-finalist ever'

 

[Daemon]

Dwayne out with a groin injury and Darren comes in to take his place. Bad move I reckon.

 

[straw man]

Vettori injured, replaced by Hira, while Bracewell retained with Oram returning for Williamson Just absurd but hey, we'll have 8 bowling options

 

[Meridio]

Vettori out - not good news for us. Williamson out as well for Oram, not sure if that's injury related or otherwise.