**Official** Super 8 Group 1 Discussion - Eng, WI, SL and NZ

[Evilpengwinz]

Sunil Narine's bowling action is a bit dodgy...

 

[grecian]

Look Ck, may be as good as we can get as a batsman in this squad, but surely Jos or Bluey could keep better than him, he makes about two bloopers a match.

Personally, I'd drop him, put in Lumb, and have one of the others 'keep.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Look Ck, may be as good as we can get as a batsman in this squad, but surely Jos or Bluey could keep better than him, he makes about two bloopers a match.

Personally, I'd drop him, put in Lumb, and have one of the others 'keep.

Yep may as well. Lumb will about the same length of time but at least he'll score another 10-15 runs in the process.

 

[The_roc]

But, unlike Kieswetter, everyone likes him so he can do no wrong.

People like Jos because;

1) He's English

2) He's a promising youngster, and

3) He knows how to rotate the strike

 

[theegyptian]

I just think that the media and fans seem to have gone on a bit of a witch hunt for Kies. There are a lot of people in the England side who haven't done much to be there (what's Bairstow done in limited overs cricket for England?) but everyone loves a bandwagon don't they...

I completely agree with this. He really seems to get it in the neck from everybody. Granted he's been crap this tournament but throughout his career people seem to want to put him down. People are very quick to forget/ not give him credit for anything good he does and criticize him for everything **** he does.

Some people won't have seen him much until this tournament and obviously he has been poor through this tournament. He's by no means the finished article but you could say that of any of the batsmen in the current team.

I think his mind is just riddled now and he's confused presumably from the different things he's been told and read in the press. but like all young players they're form slumps tend to be more drastic than the more experienced players.

Luke Wright is an interesting comparison. Wright seems to have an understanding of his game and how he's going to score runs these days. Today you could see Wright was analysing the performance of the bowler and the previous deliveries to make assumptions on the shots he should play to the next ball to look for boundaries off the spin bowlers. Kieswetter at the moment looks like the mind is just blank and he's struggling to analyse the game as it's happening.

Luke Wright to his credit has come back to international cricket with more experience and a greater understanding of how to play. Kieswetter is just struggling mentally with how to play. I think he has the talent to be succesful in international cricket but at the moment he is struggling internally.

I'm a Kieswetter fan but i think it might be time after this WC is over to take him out of the ODI/T20 squads and given him a couple of years to gain a greater understanding and to develop his game. I really think he will come back eventually to international cricket and be a very good player.

I don't think Bairstow or Buttler specifically deserve to be the WK over Kieswetter upto this point. How can you think/ pick Buttler over Kieswetter for England when Kieswetter is the first choice keeper at somerset. Bairstow also rarely keeps now he plays in all 3 formats for England and at some point england have deemed his keeping to be worse than KW so that's unlikely to have changed since he's been in the field.

Basically if you think Kieswetter is an untidy Wicketkeeper, your likely to be in for a bit of a surprise should Bairstow or Buttler take the gloves on Monday because without seeing much of either of them I would very much doubt if they're going to step in and do any better with the gloves.

Buttler or Bairstow also haven't shown they are that much more likely to succeed as batsmen in T20/ODI so far - possibly through lack of opportunity in Buttlers case but no-one seems to be too critical of these guys.

 

[theegyptian]

On a separate note (and i'm no expert on the technical side of cricket) I just really disagree with those suggesting that Morgan is a good player of spin and that they need him in India because he can play spin. Test and T20 are obviously massively different but if today is any indication of his gameplan against spin then england are massively screwed.

 

[marc71178]

I completely agree with this. He really seems to get it in the neck from everybody. Granted he's been crap this tournament but throughout his career people seem to want to put him down. People are very quick to forget/ not give him credit for anything good he does and criticize him for everything **** he does.

But when exactly has he done anything good? I'm seriously struggling to remember anything good from his England career.

 

[Neil Pickup]

^ The above point on Wright & Kieswetter is interesting. I think it may also be worthwhile to throw Prior's name back into the mix in the shorter form as he, like Wright, has gone away from the International stage and developed a gameplan. Kieswetter is still seemingly in the same place he's been for two years - block or blast... much like Richard Levi with keeping gloves.

Dead right on Buttler/Bairstow with the gloves: whilst they're serviceable backup, I get the feeling that they're likely to create Kamran Akmal moments on rather too frequent a basis for my liking.

 

[SteveNZ]

much like Richard Levi with keeping gloves.

Ouch. You could be done for slander with a comment like that..

 

[Jarquis]

People like Jos because;

1) He's English

2) He's a promising youngster, and

3) He knows how to rotate the strike

4) Averages a billion in list a cricket

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Just looked him up. 60 at a strike rate of almost 120. Crikey, that's insane.

 

[Days of Grace]

Well, from the NRRs, it looks like New Zealand just has to beat the West Indies and wait for the likely outcome of Sri Lanka ****ting over England in order to go through.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

*beat Gayle and Narine you mean

 

[Prince EWS]

^ The above point on Wright & Kieswetter is interesting. I think it may also be worthwhile to throw Prior's name back into the mix in the shorter form as he, like Wright, has gone away from the International stage and developed a gameplan. Kieswetter is still seemingly in the same place he's been for two years - block or blast... much like Richard Levi with keeping gloves.

Dead right on Buttler/Bairstow with the gloves: whilst they're serviceable backup, I get the feeling that they're likely to create Kamran Akmal moments on rather too frequent a basis for my liking.

Prior has actually always been a reasonably T20 batsman anyway. It's the subtlety of the middle format that he's struggled so much.

 

[Prince EWS]

Oh God. I bet Cribb didn't actually put any money on Franklin.

This is getting hilarious.

Haha, I did tbh. Not as much as I did when bet365 didn't realise he was opening though.

 

[grecian]

^ The above point on Wright & Kieswetter is interesting. I think it may also be worthwhile to throw Prior's name back into the mix in the shorter form as he, like Wright, has gone away from the International stage and developed a gameplan. Kieswetter is still seemingly in the same place he's been for two years - block or blast... much like Richard Levi with keeping gloves.

Dead right on Buttler/Bairstow with the gloves: whilst they're serviceable backup, I get the feeling that they're likely to create Kamran Akmal moments on rather too frequent a basis for my liking.

Well until he hit international cricket Bairstow was surely keeper at all levels? Haven't seen enough of Jos, I'll admit, but as I say CK is making at least one big mistake a match.

 

[The_roc]

Just looked him up. 60 at a strike rate of almost 120. Crikey, that's insane.

Not a bad average after 50 matches.

While checking the stats I came across an interesting article from July 2001 regarding Somerset under 11's

"On June 10th at Millfield Prep School they were victorious against Gewnt by 168 runs. Batting first Somerset amassed 238 for 7 dec off 45 overs,Jos Butler top scoring with 56,"

 

[Howe_zat]

Well until he hit international cricket Bairstow was surely keeper at all levels? Haven't seen enough of Jos, I'll admit, but as I say CK is making at least one big mistake a match.

Well, when he was first picked last year, he was sharing the gloves with Brophy at Yorkshire and rarely kept in FC cricket. Kept a lot in the early season this year though, and that was probably during his best batting form.

~

I think it's pretty unfair to say you can't remember anything Keiswetter has done. He was part of a working opening partnership that played a big hand in us winning the last tournament, not to mention being man-of-the-match in the final. And in ODIs he did very well with the bat during the 2011 summer, and I remember being impressed with his keeping in the Australia series this year despite having been one of his biggest critics.

That said, it's pretty clear he's struggling right now and the middle of a tournament is not the time to be angsty over dropping people who aren't pulling their weight. He's clearly got a dispensable role in the side too - we have an opening bat at #3 and two other decent keepers in the middle order.

Sadly the two people who I think really should be in the side - Cook and Bell - aren't in the squad, but the options we do have aren't bad. Lumb has shown just as much as CK in the past and is unlikely to waste deliveries early on. Bopara can bat down the order and gives us a good bowling option.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Not a bad average after 50 matches.

While checking the stats I came across an interesting article from July 2001 regarding Somerset under 11's

"On June 10th at Millfield Prep School they were victorious against Gewnt by 168 runs. Batting first Somerset amassed 238 for 7 dec off 45 overs,Jos Butler top scoring with 56,"

Runs against Gwent are much like runs against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

That margin of victory is not unusual, even at U11.

I've seen Bairstow keep in one very small segment of televised T20, and there was a lot of clang-and-jerk about his glovework, particularly up to the stumps - it was like watching me trying to do it... usually getting in broadly the right place, but never confident that the ball would stick.

 

[The_roc]

Well, when he was first picked last year, he was sharing the gloves with Brophy at Yorkshire and rarely kept in FC cricket. Kept a lot in the early season this year though, and that was probably during his best batting form.

~

I think it's pretty unfair to say you can't remember anything Keiswetter has done. He was part of a working opening partnership that played a big hand in us winning the last tournament, not to mention being man-of-the-match in the final. And in ODIs he did very well with the bat during the 2011 summer, and I remember being impressed with his keeping in the Australia series this year despite having been one of his biggest critics.

That said, it's pretty clear he's struggling right now and the middle of a tournament is not the time to be angsty over dropping people who aren't pulling their weight. He's clearly got a dispensable role in the side too - we have an opening bat at #3 and two other decent keepers in the middle order.

Sadly the two people who I think really should be in the side - Cook and Bell - aren't in the squad, but the options we do have aren't bad. Lumb has shown just as much as CK in the past and is unlikely to waste deliveries early on. Bopara can bat down the order and gives us a good bowling option.

I was right behind you until the last paragraph. Bell and Cook in the T20 squad, no way. I saw Cook play in the T20 quarter final at Taunton and he was run a ball crap. If you are looking for a new man to bring into the squad I would go with Vince from Hampshire.

As a Somerset fan I wouldn't have a problem dropping Kieswetter and let B or B keep wicket. The problem is who takes his place. Lumb's last 3 T20 innings don't add up to double figures between them, and I can't believe anyone would want Bopara back His last 3 ODI scores were 0, 6, 0 and his last 4 T20 scores includes 6, 1 and 1.

For me it would be Wright to open, bump the rest up one in the batting order anf let Kieswetter bat 6.