**Official** Super 8 Group 1 Discussion - Eng, WI, SL and NZ

[shankar]

Imagine a situation where Team A batting first scores 300/5 in 50 overs in excellent batting conditions and Team B scoring 260 but at loss of 4 wickets.

While this reasoning works with ODIs, it doesn't necessarily work with T20s. The reason is that the no. of balls taken by new batsmen to get going, cumulatively is not an insignificant fraction of the total deliveries available. For example compare the two cases where a team played a bit conservatively and finished with 4 wickets down and where they took more risks and finished with 7 wickets. Even if each of the 3 extra batsmen spent just 4 balls each to get going, they'd have spent 2 overs extra doing this. 2 out of 20 overs is not an insignificant amount and the additional risks taken may not make up for it.

 

[Hurricane]

**** it.

Yeah gutting we competed and lost still - a good performance with the bat. I would put Franko at 5 instead of Orum.

 

[amanuensis]

Another walk-on for Buttler then.

Has Hales done enough to get a go in the 50-overs team?

Batting where? England already have an opening partnership.

 

[theegyptian]

English batsmen mismanaged the chase, there could be no doubt about that.

It comes from the previous game against india where they were bowled out cheaply and everybody was critical of them for playing too many shots and not playing themselves in. Difficult for young minds to have different people telling them different things. Personally i think england should just go out there and play real aggresively - it's made tougher when conditions aren't quite as the young players are used to.


hales innings was junk - not fit enough or good enough to accelerate

 

[SteveNZ]

It comes from the previous game against india where they were bowled out cheaply and everybody was critical of them for playing too many shots and not playing themselves in. Difficult for young minds to have different people telling them different things. Personally i think england should just go out there and play real aggresively - it's made tougher when conditions aren't quite as the young players are used to.


hales innings was junk - not fit enough or good enough to accelerate

What about Bairstow's innings in that case?

 

[Howsie]

So how will New Zealand butcher tonights game?

One thing I haven't seen anyone bring up yet is just how slow we've been through the first six overs so far. Williamson is down to come in at eight, we bat down to 11. There should be absolutely no reason for someone in the top three to be on 30 and only be striking at 100, as has been the case in all three games. Have a proper go and if you get out so be it, we have plenty of resources.

 

[straw man]

So how will New Zealand butcher tonights game?

One thing I haven't seen anyone bring up yet is just how slow we've been through the first six overs so far. Williamson is down to come in at eight, we bat down to 11. There should be absolutely no reason for someone in the top three to be on 30 and only be striking at 100, as has been the case in all three games. Have a proper go and if you get out so be it, we have plenty of resources.

I think the batting slow starts have been fine, mainly because I don't particularly rate our batting and this approach has brought us three consecutive scores over 160. I think in theory we bat down to 11 (7-11 have all scored good runs for NZ at times) but in reality not one of those can be relied on at all (Oram is included in '7-11' even though they insist on batting him in top 6). And to add to that, there are question marks over a few of our top order batsmen and we're very reliant on McCullum and Taylor. So imo we have scarce resources rather than plenty, so for openers to be striking at just 100 without huge risk is ok for the start. If we could clone McCullum and Taylor then of course I would agree with you.

Battle of the tournament's potential cellar-dwellers tonight and loser is all but out. It would be pretty harsh for us to finish bottom after losing on a super over against SL. Haven't seen England's recent matches that led to much wailing on this forum, but they're definitely capable of beating us. I think we are slight favourites but will no doubt regret saying this.

 

[Days of Grace]

Williamson shouldn't be anywhere near our T20 team, but there's no one else, sadly.

His only role seems to be to bat at no.4 in the event of two early wickets. So basically he is in the team in the event of a negative outcome. Oh well.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Disagree. Williamson just needs to be treated as a proper batsman and put in the top four consistently. He's a great foil to Taylor, McCullum, and Guptill and has plenty of hitting capability once he's got himself in, if it's required.

 

[Kippax]

Disagree. Williamson just needs to be treated as a proper batsman and put in the top four consistently. He's a great foil to Taylor, McCullum, and Guptill and has plenty of hitting capability once he's got himself in, if it's required.

Kane's record opening for ND is terrible I think. I would still try to utilise Kane rather than pair Guptill and Nicol together though. 50 off the first six seems close to impossible with Nicol as prolific in the yorked-yourself munt as he is.

 

[straw man]

Williamson shouldn't be anywhere near our T20 team, but there's no one else, sadly.

His only role seems to be to bat at no.4 in the event of two early wickets. So basically he is in the team in the event of a negative outcome. Oh well.

Indeed. I think Williamson in T20 is a little better than the chances he's been given this tournament, but does usually struggle to find the boundary. A decent support batsman but that pre-supposes McCullum or Taylor (or perhaps Guptill) is going well at the other end.

We really do lack batsman. I mean, given the number of overs Franklin is bowling we could almost afford to drop someone like Oram/Mills for a specialist batsman, but again there isn't another in the squad.

 

[Hurricane]

Indeed. I think Williamson in T20 is a little better than the chances he's been given this tournament, but does usually struggle to find the boundary. A decent support batsman but that pre-supposes McCullum or Taylor (or perhaps Guptill) is going well at the other end.

We really do lack batsman. I mean, given the number of overs Franklin is bowling we could almost afford to drop someone like Oram/Mills for a specialist batsman, but again there isn't another in the squad.

Fly over Luke Vivian IMO. Then the commentators can go spastic about how heavy his bat is.

Seriously it is a pity that CDG turned out to be crap as he would be ideal at number 5 in T20.

KNB looked ok in one champions trophy also. He would be better than Kane.

 

[Scaly piscine]

We need Peter Wilson on standby in case we manage to lose to NZ.

So many batsmen who I have no faith in, or are downright liabilities, in the squad.

 

[Hurricane]

We need Peter Wilson on standby in case we manage to lose to NZ.

So many batsmen who I have no faith in, or are downright liabilities, in the squad.

This post makes me hope we win. Otherwise I would have no vested interest in the outcome.

 

[BackFootPunch]

No Oram apparently, that'll probably mean Bracewell comes in.

 

[theegyptian]

What about Bairstow's innings in that case?

it was crap and showed his limitations as an odi/t20 player. england have a few biffers who don't have many shots in between which make average odi players unless they open or come in at the end . Stokes, Kw, Bairstow. It looked like Bairstow wasn't sure whether to stick or twist given the abject performance england had made against india and the criticism of their aggresive batting in that game.

but if Bairstow rather than Hales had batted the 20 overs he would have had the skill to accelerate and england most likely would have won everything else being as it was.

 

[Hurricane]

No Oram apparently, that'll probably mean Bracewell comes in.

Will improve our batting.

 

[theegyptian]

d-bag given the heave-ho

 

[BackFootPunch]

Bracewell it is then. Now our 3 seamers are basically exactly the same. Would have much preferred Milne. Or even Hira given how horrible England are against spin.

 

[straw man]

Will improve our batting.

awta. Hopefully Bracewell can get through 2 overs without too much damage.