**Official** South Africa in England 2012

[Spikey]

PEWS we're gonna have to kick you off the site because..uh...well...you, sent me a mean VM once

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I didn't have too much criticism about how the ECB had handled all this other than the possibility of leaks (which I thought was a bit of a side-show in itself) up until now, but here they've had the perfect opportunity to put it all behind them and decided to flex their muscles instead. When it was about Pietersen's availability for different matches they had the moral high ground and something to actually achieve by digging their claws in, but this is just dire and accomplishes absolutely nothing.

It's got to be all about the Text messages he sent. If the England players feel he has betrayed them and he hasn't apologised then dropping him has probably saved the team moral in the long term. Had to be done.

 

[Garson007]

I didn't have too much criticism about how the ECB had handled all this other than the possibility of leaks (which I thought was a bit of a side-show in itself) up until now, but here they've had the perfect opportunity to put it all behind them and decided to flex their muscles instead. When it was about Pietersen's availability for different matches they had the moral high ground and something to actually achieve by digging their claws in, but this is just dire and accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Tbh, I think that is exactly KPs agenda. He wanted that to happen. Pulled the double bluff to make himself out to be the victim. You really think he wanted to play ODIs again?

 

[Prince EWS]

If they don't win this then they should never complain about being tagged underachievers ever again. It's all there on a plate for them.

Meh, I think we should judge South Africa's performance relative to how England actually play rather than how the circumstances make you think they should. The teams are still very even IMO so if England rally and put in a really good performance, and South Africa lose narrowly, then I don't think it should be termed an underachievement just because of what happened pre-game. If England are put off and South Africa just don't take advantage then it's a different thing altogether but I don't think we should judge it the performance purely based on the result.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

It's got to be all about the Text messages he sent. If the England players feel he has betrayed them and he hasn't apologised then dropping him has probably saved the team moral in the long term. Had to be done.

That is the way i see it and I don't see a way back for him now.

I said before that Flower and KP are both stubborn and it would end badly, looks like it has. Enjoy the big fat IPL contract KP as you won't get an England one.

 

[theegyptian]

England must really not rate Woakes bowling for him not to get a callup now. Thought there was a good chance should KP being dropped that Woakes got a game.

 

[Prince EWS]

Tbh, I think that is exactly KPs agenda. He wanted that to happen. Pulled the double bluff to make himself out to be the victim. You really think he wanted to play ODIs again?

I think he was willing to in order to save his Test career, yes. The ECB got the desired result out of him - he backed down, withdrew all his demands and made himself available for whatever they desired. They'd won, and instead of trying to put it behind them and press on with what was basically the ideal result for them, they dug their claws in with nothing to gain.

I'm sure you all have conspiracy theories about Pietersen's YouTube video being a PR stunt after the fact or whatever but I don't buy any of that.

 

[Spark]

Meh, I think we should judge South Africa's performance relative to how England actually play rather than how the circumstances make you think they should. The teams are still very even IMO so if England rally and put in a really good performance, and South Africa lose narrowly, then I don't think it should be termed an underachievement just because of what happened pre-game. If England are put off and South Africa just don't take advantage then it's a different thing altogether but I don't think we should judge it the performance purely based on the result.

I'm thinking of it in really crude, simple terms here. With this change to the team, SA look definitevely stronger than England now, even taking into account the fact that the attack may show up properly at Lord's. They have a series lead. I'm doubtful that everyone in the England dressing room will be completely OK with KP not being there and it will surely play on their minds.

SA could not have possibly asked for more - hence why, if they don't win, they'll have underachieved. They might do so via, say, a Broad special, but this is a series that, as it stands right now, they should win.

 

[Spark]

England must really not rate Woakes bowling for him not to get a callup now. Thought there was a good chance should KP being dropped that Woakes got a game.

I cannot possibly see how playing six specialist bats, one of whom is clearly low on Test match form (Trott) and the other of whom has played one Test innings, is a good idea.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I think he was willing to in order to save his Test career, yes. The ECB got the desired result out of him - he backed down, withdrew all his demands and made himself available for whatever they desired. They'd won, and instead of trying to put it behind them and press on with what was basically the ideal result for them, they dug their claws in with nothing to gain.

I'm sure you all have conspiracy theories about Pietersen's YouTube video being a PR stunt after the fact or whatever but I don't buy any of that.

Apparently he was asked not to make the video by the ECB and did so anyway. It's all about KP and his ego. He's a fantastic talent but there's only so much you can take. It doesn't help KP's cause that England feel they can go on without him now.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm thinking of it in really crude, simple terms here.

Exactly.

 

[Spark]

Exactly.

Simple, crude - but not inaccurate

Let's put it this way - if SA don't win the series, there'll be a lot of talk around about how the hell they let this one get away. Usually I'd be kinder, but not when it comes to South "we-can't-win-home-series-against-half-decent-opposition" Africa.

 

[Prince EWS]

PEWS we're gonna have to kick you off the site because..uh...well...you, sent me a mean VM once

I'm still not sure what this post is about. Are the VMs are text messages analogy or something?

 

[Spikey]

I'm still not sure what this post is about. Are the VMs are text messages analogy or something?

it's about you being a ****, ****

 

[theegyptian]

Personally i think we should get rid of everyone. Sack Strauss as he has done **** all for years. Sack Flower because he's let this **** happen. Sack KP. Sack Swann because he's a knob. and start again

Root
Cook(c)
Trott
Bell
Taylor
Bairstow
Prior
Bresnan
Broad
Anderson
Kerrigan

Stokes comes in when he regains some form with the bat.

We'd lose a bit initially but it would be exciting and we'd of got rid of the prima donna's (with the exception of broad) and build again.

And I'm only half joking.

 

[Prince EWS]

Simple, crude - but not inaccurate

Let's put it this way - if SA don't win the series, there'll be a lot of talk around about how the hell they let this one get away. Usually I'd be kinder, but not when it comes to South "we-can't-win-home-series-against-half-decent-opposition" Africa.

It strikes me as something you actually hate - people judging performances based on what they think should have happened without actually watching the cricket. Except in this instance, the cricket hasn't even been played yet. If England play out of their skins and South Africa lose narrowly then it's not an underachievement AFAIC.

 

[Spark]

Personally i think we should get rid of everyone. Sack Strauss as he has done **** all for years. Sack Flower because he's let this **** happen. Sack KP. Sack Swann because he's a knob. and start again

Root
Cook(c)
Trott
Bell
Taylor
Bairstow
Prior
Bresnan
Broad
Anderson
Kerrigan

We'd lose a bit initially but it would be exciting and we'd of got rid of the prima donna's (with the exception of broad) and build again.

And I'm only half joking.

Double Ashes victories, here we come!

 

[Eds]

Apparently he was asked not to make the video by the ECB and did so anyway. It's all about KP and his ego. He's a fantastic talent but there's only so much you can take. It doesn't help KP's cause that England feel they can go on without him now.

Stopped reading after the first word, ITBT.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

TE that side you have picked there might not be too far off the side we put out in the first home test of 2014 after the ashes double header.

Woakes for Bresnan maybe?

 

[Spark]

It strikes me as something you actually hate - people judging performances based on what they think should have happened without actually watching the cricket. Except in this instance, the cricket hasn't even been played yet. If England play out of their skins and South Africa lose narrowly then it's not an underachievement AFAIC.

As I said, I usually would be kinder, but it's happened too many times to be a fluke. I mean, sure, if Anderson/Broad have blinders and whatnot then yes, I think they'll have a defence, but sure as **** many won't see it that way, and it'll be probably the final nail in the coffin in the idea that SA have been the actual best team over the last three or four years. It's about damn time they turn their on paper dominance - which they now have - to series wins.

EDIT: I also should add that this is the best example of the difference in the way I rate teams vs. the way I rate players. Since a team is obvs a collection of players, that difference can be quite subtle.