**Official** South Africa in England 2012

[longtom]

It's winning the close games that they really need to improve in.

That sums it up .... also explains the WC troubles they seem to have time and again. Good post!

 

[smash84]

It's a point worth making that in 2010, SA played India home and away. Both times - they managed a soul destroying innings victory in the first test inspired by some mammoth innings and both times awesome second innings spells by Mr. Steyn. The similarity is alarming.

What is interesting is that both times again, they lost the very next test. The first time, they came two overs within drawing it and the second time, they lost by 80-odd runs. England certainly don't have the sort of batman in absolute ATG form that India had at that point nor did India have the bowling at their disposal that England has but the general point is that the real test for SA will come when and if the game becomes evenly matched. I'd hesitate to use the c-word(no, not ****) but mammoth victories are the rule rather than the exception for SA, It's winning the close games that they really need to improve in.

 

[Plumbinfront]

Clinical from South Africa. Very much along expected lines. Dale Steyn showed once again why he is far and away the world's best bowler. To tame the English batsmen at home and to outperform Anderson and co in England is no mean feat. A criticism of Steyn has often been that he doesn't show up often enough in the second innings when the test is on the line, today he did that.

The challenge for SA will now be to win the series. Like Federer, they have shown time and again that they have what it takes to be the best. But, like Federer, they have also shown the tendency to lose it a bit afer screwing the opponents over for a brief period.

 

[wpdavid]

The disappointing similarity with the 2005 side is the failure to kick on after achieving their goal. While with that side it was winning The Ashes, this lot seem to have stalled after hitting top spot.

I think we have it in us to recover, whether in this series or the longer term but there is clearly an awful lot of work required.

The batsmen need to show an awful lot more discipline. Number six is a big problem and even bigger now that there are a couple of passengers in the line-up. It was all well and good when we could hide Morgan, and before him Colly (at 5 obviously) because every other ****er was scoring centuries, but Cook is the only one I trust currently to score a few scores per series, and as we saw today/yesterday, him failing causes us problems.

As for the bowlers, they don't become a bad attack overnight but you can't hide from a score like that. We all enjoyed 517-1 against the Aussies and this was just as bad if not worse. If Headingley turns out a raging seamer I'd be tempted to give Swann a break, can't believe I'm saying it but there you go. Otherwise if you want changes then Bresnan has to be the man to miss out. Is Tremlett fit yet?

I don't think so (regarding Tremlett). Not fully fit, anyway.

Your first point has struck me too. On the face of things, it's as if reaching the pinnacle was everything and they can't maintain it once there. At least the 2005 side had excuses with the injuries to Jones & Vaughan and Tresco's illness which meant the team never played again. For this lot, we're just seeing the same players achieving horribly different results.

Taking 2012 as a whole, the batting's the real concern. I suppose what we'll learn over the next few months is whether their performances against Aus & India were a genuine and long-term step up and the last six months have been an aberration, or, in fact, those 18 months in 2010/11 were a brief but unsustainable golden run against ordinary bowlers. Given how they struggled at home to Pakistan (who would have won the series with a more experienced batting line-up) and in SA as well as what we've seen this year, the latter is increasingly looking the likelier bet. Worst case scenario now is another flop at Headingley followed by a couple of career-saving knocks at Lord's. The one thing in our favour is that our coach won't shirk from axing a big name or two if need be. I hope.

As for the bowling, I'm choosing to believe that fitness may be an issue and that they're better than we saw this week. They certainly were against India, on pitches that weren't minefields by any stretch of the imagination. As other have said, if Broad and Bres aren't fit, then don't pick them. Perhaps that was the biggest mistake in this test.

 

[Expressway76]

That must rank as one of the worst all round performances by the England test team in many a year. Surely the only way is up from here?

 

[wpdavid]

That must rank as one of the worst all round performances by the England test team in many a year. Surely the only way is up from here?

You'd hope. Trouble is our next test is at a ground where we all too often play horribly. Where is Old Trafford or Edgbaston when you need them?

 

[Stumpcam]

I don't think so (regarding Tremlett). Not fully fit, anyway.

No, Tremmers is still working his way back from injury. But Finn is fully fit and was bowling well enough in the ODIs against Australia. I think he should replace Bresnan or Broad (who I don't think is fit himself) for the Headingly game.

Taking 2012 as a whole, the batting's the real concern. I suppose what we'll learn over the next few months is whether their performances against Aus & India were a genuine and long-term step up and the last six months have been an aberration, or, in fact, those 18 months in 2010/11 were a brief but unsustainable golden run against ordinary bowlers. Given how they struggled at home to Pakistan (who would have won the series with a more experienced batting line-up) and in SA as well as what we've seen this year, the latter is increasingly looking the likelier bet. Worst case scenario now is another flop at Headingley followed by a couple of career-saving knocks at Lord's. The one thing in our favour is that our coach won't shirk from axing a big name or two if need be. I hope.

As for the bowling, I'm choosing to believe that fitness may be an issue and that they're better than we saw this week. They certainly were against India, on pitches that weren't minefields by any stretch of the imagination. As other have said, if Broad and Bres aren't fit, then don't pick them. Perhaps that was the biggest mistake in this test.

Flower certainly isn't afraid of dumping a non-performing player when he sees fit. But will he see the glaring problems we perceive in his team?

I think Bresnan should be sent back to the county game to rediscover his old form, IMO he is not the same bowler he was before his injury.

But the batting is a more difficult area to make clear-cut and improving changes to. Other than Compton, who has had a great season, many of the up and coming youngsters have not covered themselves in glory in this stop-start season of rain and poor pitches.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

You'd hope. Trouble is our next test is at a ground where we all too often play horribly. Where is Old Trafford or Edgbaston when you need them?

Wasn't the Oval supposed to be the ground where England traditionally excel against the Yarps?

Either way, that was an abject defeat. England looked good on the 1st day, but the wheels came off the wagon spectacularly. Say what you like about the bowling conditions on day 2 versus day 3, but that doesn't excuse the lack of penetration seen from what we all know to be a good bowling unit. Personally, I say stick with the team as it is - barring injury. We all know them to be individually better players than we've witnessed in this debacle. Give them the opportunity to repair the damage. And yes, even Bopara.

Now, on Bopara - his dismissal in the first dig has to be one of the worst I've seen in recent times. That was until I watched Pietersen's 2nd innings. What was that? Woeful.

 

[Garson007]

South Africa now with four of the top six ranked batsmen, and three of the top six bowlers. Gives further fuel to wpdavid's musings as to how they're not already the dominant number one team.

Reliance ICC Player Rankings

The problem is that even given that some of them can be direly inconsistent *cough*Morkel*cough*. It also doesn't help that the other four players in the team can be utter ****e.

 

[Burgey]

Well, I must admit I didn't see that coming at all. Certainly hadn't formed a view on this series which would have suggested such a definitive thumping for one side or the other.

Good stuff.

 

[LegendaryProtea]

The problem is that even given that some of them can be direly inconsistent *cough*Morkel*cough*. It also doesn't help that the other four players in the team can be utter ****e.

This is pretty much the reason I'm not getting too excited and quite fancy England getting back into the series.

Most of South Africa's star/best players are better than England's star/best players but England have the edge when it comes to having a more complete side. I think Smith > Strauss, Amla > Trott, Kallis > KP, AB > Bell, Steyn > Anderson and in general, SA pace attack > England pace attack. When all those gun South African players fire, you get an outcome like this. Absolute destruction. Triple hundreds, centuries for fun, getting five-fors on a flat deck. This pretty much masks the very inconsistent and dodgy players that South Africa are carrying like Petersen and Rudolph.

It's not every time that all the key South African players will turn up and England will just roll over. England will almost certainly improve in the next two Tests and not all the South African guns can maintain the same level. In this situation, the weaker members of the SA side will have to stand up and I'm not overly confident they have the class to do so.

 

[Hurricane]

Rudolph played some annoying innings against NZ.

 

[LegendaryProtea]

Only in Dunedin, he had low scores in the other two Tests. Since his return to the Test side, his performance in Dunedin has been the only notable effort. Also, stats don't lie. To average mid 30s after roughly 45 Tests indicates he is a pretty average Test match batsman.

 

[smash84]

This is pretty much the reason I'm not getting too excited and quite fancy England getting back into the series.

Most of South Africa's star/best players are better than England's star/best players but England have the edge when it comes to having a more complete side. I think Smith > Strauss, Amla > Trott, Kallis > KP, AB > Bell, Steyn > Anderson and in general, SA pace attack > England pace attack, Tahir > Swann

 

[Pothas]

There again today, somewhat frustrating because Prior and Bell started to look pretty comfortable at one stage.

Steyn is special though, we gifted him a fair few wickets today but be just so emphatically looks and acts like a proper fast bowler.

Awful lot of crap shots in there especially yesterday evening.

 

[Arachnodouche]

I think Steyn's attitude got him all those wickets because at least 4 or maybe even all five of them weren't wicket taking deliveries by any stretch of the imagination. Intent, imposition of will, will to power (channeling Nietzche now) are all phrases that get thrown around a lot in modern sports psychology, but the guy really represents all of them.

England have just run into a form line up here, with a very different approach to batting than India or Australia. Players willing to grind it out for long hours, basically playing the same sort of cricket that got England to the top. SA have the better bowling by far at the moment though, and I don't see how England can make headway in this series with the same bowling lineup. If anything, the way Philander got better through the game, he looks all set to make his usual splash soon enough also.

 

[uvelocity]

Hamsandwich Amla is such a legend. If someone said a bad word about him I'd punch them in the mouth.

amla's a ****. come at me.

I'd hesitate to use the c-word(no, not ****) but mammoth victories are the rule rather than the exception for SA, It's winning the close games that they really need to improve in.

Great post Teja.

As a neutral aussie, this series only got better for the thumping. Either we will see the top of the table clash that we want, of high quality, perhaps a deciding third test. Otherwise and equally appetising would be a series thrashing of the poms at home.

 

[vic_orthdox]

England v SA, 1st Investec Test, The Oval, 5th day: England lost at their own game | Cricket Features | England v South Africa | ESPN Cricinfo

Rikki-watch is back on! @NeilPickup #wowee

 

[Spikey]

Rikki Clarke? what could possiblye go wrong?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Even the Warwickshire fans hated him until about 12 months ago. It's a no from me but then again he is probably better than Bopara. Feel unclean now saying that.