Do you think Murali was a chucker?

[Migara]

yep. I just called it a 'flick' because that's how it appears to me for fast bowlers. That being said, just because both involve extension doesn't automatically mean they are at the same 'level'. I don't give a rats about this angle stuff (it's all so contentious anyway), in terms of just watching them bowl I absolutely don't think McGrath chucks it. I do think Murali does (mainly for certain deliveries anyway). And to show I'm not just being biased here, I'd also say I think someone like Lee gets awfully close sometimes.

This is when bias cause illusions to become hallucinations and the delusions, culminating in delusional perception. McGrath extends 12 doesn't chuck. Murali extends 14 but chucks. ****ing hilarious.

 

[Ruckus]

I don't have full confidence is those measurements to begin with, but in any case I'd like to know what this means and how it might differ between someone like Murali and McGrath:

"occasionally go over the prescribed tolerance limit, bending their arms by as much as 12 degrees."

It's not just about magnitude, but also frequency.

And sorry why am I biased? I don't give a **** about what it would mean Murali's action was 100% clean. Basically the only two reasons I would be biased is because a. I dislike Sri Lankan's for some reason or b. I have some ulterior motive in wanting to belittle Murali's achievements in order to pump up Warne's. The first is just ridiculous, and frankly insulting. The second is no doubt a legitimate reason for many people's criticism of Murali, but I can assure you, and you'll just have to trust me here, while I like watching Warne bowl (who doesn't) I am not an outright fan and couldn't care less where he stands in the pantheon of spin bowlers.

Accuse me of being visually impaired or stupid or whatever else you can conjure up, but please don't call me biased.

 

[Migara]

I don't have full confidence is those measurements to begin with, but in any case I'd like to know what this means and how it might differ between someone like Murali and McGrath:

"occasionally go over the prescribed tolerance limit, bending their arms by as much as 12 degrees."

It's not just about magnitude, but also frequency.

Yeah, professor, now prove me that Murali does it more often than McGrath!

At least Murali has control ove his when he refrains from bowling the doosra, and McG has none of it. If the previous law was enforced we would have seen Murali bowling only off breaks and McGrath banned from bowling.

And sorry why am I biased? I don't give a **** about what it would mean Murali's action was 100% clean. Basically the only two reasons I would be biased is because a. I dislike Sri Lankan's for some reason or b. I have some ulterior motive in wanting to belittle Murali's achievements in order to pump up Warne's. The first is just ridiculous, and frankly insulting. The second is no doubt a legitimate reason for many people's criticism of Murali, but I can assure you, and you'll just have to trust me here, while I like watching Warne bowl (who doesn't) I am not an outright fan and couldn't care less where he stands in the pantheon of spin bowlers.

Accuse me of being visually impaired or stupid or whatever else you can conjure up, but please don't call me biased

Meh, the only bias you know and working up your mind is that nationalistic bias. There are many other biases too. Observer bias, and measurement bias are two of them. When you camp on your eye sight so much, it creates an observer bias as well as measurement bias. The nationalistic bias, you can have your own judgements.

 

[sledger]

Best logic ever!

It is, the camera doesn't lie.

 

[sledger]

A still pic? You got the definition of chucking fundamentally wrong.

Besides chucking is such a nob issue in case of spinners in my eyes. Have expressed my views on that before.

No, I am being completely serious. My definition is sound. A blatant throw doesn't become any less blatant just because it's been spotted from a still picture, it was a frame taken from video footage anyway. Pretty conclusive I'd say.

 

[The Sean]

Migara, I absolutely adore how frequently you call other posters out for nationalistic bias without the faintest hint of irony.

 

[Ruckus]

Yeah, professor, now prove me that Murali does it more often than McGrath!

At least Murali has control ove his when he refrains from bowling the doosra, and McG has none of it. If the previous law was enforced we would have seen Murali bowling only off breaks and McGrath banned from bowling.
Meh, the only bias you know and working up your mind is that nationalistic bias. There are many other biases too. Observer bias, and measurement bias are two of them. When you camp on your eye sight so much, it creates an observer bias as well as measurement bias. The nationalistic bias, you can have your own judgements.

Na that's horse****. You calling me biased was in reference to nationalism. Any observational/measurement bias is going to be nonspecific, so you can accuse me of having inaccurate views on everyone, but you can't say it's a reason for me singling out Murali over McGrath if (as you allege) they both have the same degree of extension. Personally, I don't think it's that fraught with difficulty to watch slow motion replays and see how much someone's arm bends, but hey if you want to claim I have an inability to judge something like that with any clarity, then go nuts. So we're at a dead end in this discussion, and I have no interest in continuing it.

 

[Fusion]

Let's keep it civil please. There is no need to hurl unfounded accusations against each other, thanks.

 

[sledger]

Let's keep it civil please. There is no need to hurl unfounded accusations against each other, thanks.

Very apt way of putting things, given the nature of the thread's subject matter.

 

[Himannv]

By the original rules, yes. Under those rules if the umpire thought you threw it, then you threw it. And a number of umpires thought he did.

Under current rules, no he does not throw it. He did the test and his arm straightened less than 15 degrees.

So the answer is both yes and no.

This was pretty much the only reply in this entire thread which I thought was worth reading. Very well put.

 

[Psycho Macaque]

Well, this is all a bit '2001'.

I thought we'd moved past this.

I thought we'd all decided that it was blatantly obvious that he chucked. That the conditions under which he was tested was nothing like match conditions. That he was just lolloping up and dobbing it down rather than trying to impart as many revs as he could on the ball.

His doosra was miles worse - his offies were OK most of the time, unless he was desperately striving for wickets. I'm sort of stunned batsmen didn't pick his doosra more easily. If it looked a 'dodgy' delivery it was more often than not going do be a doosra.

Mental though, this thread, I feel like I've gone through a timewarp.

 

[fredfertang]

Well, this is all a bit '2001'.

I thought we'd moved past this.

I thought we'd all decided that it was blatantly obvious that he chucked. That the conditions under which he was tested was nothing like match conditions. That he was just lolloping up and dobbing it down rather than trying to impart as many revs as he could on the ball.

His doosra was miles worse - his offies were OK most of the time, unless he was desperately striving for wickets. I'm sort of stunned batsmen didn't pick his doosra more easily. If it looked a 'dodgy' delivery it was more often than not going do be a doosra.

Mental though, this thread, I feel like I've gone through a timewarp.

You must have read very selectively indeed

 

[Psycho Macaque]

I didn't read anything at all. I was being ironic. The only part of my post that was ironic. All the rest was more than serious. I've heard (and more importantly seen) every angle there is on this subject. I've come to the decision he chucks, just as Ajmal does now. It's cool, though, chucking, everyone's cool with it now. It's like drugs and free love in the 60's... we all become desensitised to it. It's all like 'go you little chucker, go on!'.

 

[sledger]

 

[uvelocity]

Just check cricinfo. Both McGrath and Pollock are mentioned.

It does not say McGrath extended 12 degrees.

 

[Fusion]

Well, this is all a bit '2001'.

I thought we'd moved past this.

I thought we'd all decided that it was blatantly obvious that he chucked. That the conditions under which he was tested was nothing like match conditions. That he was just lolloping up and dobbing it down rather than trying to impart as many revs as he could on the ball.

His doosra was miles worse - his offies were OK most of the time, unless he was desperately striving for wickets. I'm sort of stunned batsmen didn't pick his doosra more easily. If it looked a 'dodgy' delivery it was more often than not going do be a doosra.

Mental though, this thread, I feel like I've gone through a timewarp.

Ah, the "if I state something authoritatively, it must be true" line of post. I especially like the application of this when what is being stated ("we all decided") is blatantly false. Kudos to you, Sir, for taking it up a notch in the absurd posting stakes.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

ah, the "if i state something authoritatively, it must be true" line of post. I especially like the application of this when what is being stated ("we all decided") is blatantly false. Kudos to you, sir, for taking it up a notch in the absurd posting stakes.

+1

 

[Flem274*]

I don;t know about Murali, but we know Marlon Samuels can throw at a speed of at least 126kph.

 

[Ruckus]

I didn't read anything at all. I was being ironic. The only part of my post that was ironic. All the rest was more than serious. I've heard (and more importantly seen) every angle there is on this subject. I've come to the decision he chucks, just as Ajmal does now. It's cool, though, chucking, everyone's cool with it now. It's like drugs and free love in the 60's... we all become desensitised to it. It's all like 'go you little chucker, go on!'.

This post is awesome.

 

[Migara]

It is, the camera doesn't lie.

+1, Camera will not lie, if it's allowed to interpret as well.