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Ranking the great fast bowlers

watson

watson

Banned
Monk said:
I can understand Marshall, Hadlee and Ambrose being somewhat on par.

I cannot fathom Shaun Pollock and Courtney Walsh ranking above Lillee, Trueman and Holding.
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I agree with you Monk. Lillee, Trueman, and Holding are definitely 'strike bowlers', Pollock and Walsh maybe at best.

The only thing that drags Lillee and Trueman down in my book is their lack of a good record on the subcontinent (which incidently is why I rate MrGrath as a greater Aussie quick bowler than Lillee). Hence they are a 'risk' when selecting an ATG team.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to leave Holding out of a top 10. He was aweome everywhere no matter the surface.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Monk said:
Yeh, fair enough point on Marshall.

Not sure I'd say Warne is half level above O'Reilly or Murali, hard call to make. I'd have him in my side any day though!

Hobbs definitely above all other openers.
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O'Reilly only played I think 27 tests and Murali has a desparity btwm home and away conditions.
 
weldone

weldone

Hall of Fame Member
Prince EWS said:
I think his process is fairly similar to mine (in fact it actually uses some of my data) and I always get Marshall below Hadlee as well, and sometimes Ambrose.
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Indeed (some differences in the formula, plus I consider number of wickets taken as an input, which you don't).

My ranking system 2 is based on Ankit's 'how valuable is that wicket' analysis, plus other inputs as usual.

On a side note (not entirely related to this), I have always wondered why Andy Roberts' standardised average is so high (about 28) according to your system? I think in the first part of Roberts' career, he was the leading WI bowler and at that time he didn't have huge support from other bowlers - Marshall and Garner came later, Holding too IIRC. Will it be possible for you to diagnose Roberts' standardised average further?
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
AndyZaltzHair said:
The age old argument of Lillee and Mcgrath will never come to rest-

Lillee is still the greatest, say Thommo and Dougie - Cricket - Sport
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a little OTT IMO

from the article

Another of Lillee's former teammates, Doug Walters, agreed with Thomson's assessment: "I'm probably biased but I can't go past Dennis," he said. "Glenn McGrath is a great bowler but Dennis, to me, is the one."

McGrath hovers around the mid-130kmh range. Lillee used to push towards 160kmh. Not that McGrath cares about the readings on the radar gun. His philosophy is that if he lands 99 balls out of 100 on the right spot, heading towards clipping the top of off stump, he will take a lot of wickets.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Lillee was not slow but unlike Thommo he did rely on a lot of other tools, such as swing and variations like his famous leg cutter - which frankly is why he was such a fantastic bowler - the speed argument actually takes away from a lot of his skill.
 
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smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
not really.....speed along with everything that he possessed really adds to his legend

a leg cutter at 80 mph would be much more useful than a leg cutter at 70mph
 
AndyZaltzHair

AndyZaltzHair

Hall of Fame Member
I'm not sure if Charles Kortright's name came up earlier but he seems to be among the rank of fastest although didn't play a test.

[Wiki] In his obituary in the 1953 edition of Wisden Cricketers' Almanack, he was described as "probably the fastest bowler in the history of the game", a testimony fervently supported by countless of those who saw and faced him.[1]

Charles Kortright - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Jager

Jager

International Debutant
AndyZaltzHair said:
I'm not sure if Charles Kortright's name came up earlier but he seems to be among the rank of fastest although didn't play a test.

[Wiki] In his obituary in the 1953 edition of Wisden Cricketers' Almanack, he was described as "probably the fastest bowler in the history of the game", a testimony fervently supported by countless of those who saw and faced him.[1]

Charles Kortright - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Woah, does he look exactly like Stanley Jackson?

Stanley Jackson | England Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo
Charles Kortright | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo
 
Jager

Jager

International Debutant
kyear2 said:
I would remove Hadlee fron that first group and replace him with possibly Trueman, and I was agreeing with you on the second point. And I do belive that Marshall was half a level above the rest, like Warne among the spinners and Hobbs with openers.
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Can not understand this at all. Warne clearly above Grimmett or O'Reilly? Hobbs clearly above Richards or Sutcliffe?
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Why is Viv rated higher than Chappell, they played in more or less the same era, more or less the same record and equally dominant in WSC, Greg was classical to Viv;s destructive. It's not always rational.
None the less I have my reasons.
 
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