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CW All-Time XI

Jager

International Debutant
Can't think of many genuine spinning all rounders apart from Benaud...
Aubrey Faulkner and Wilfred Rhodes would be two prominent examples, although many debate that Rhodes did not perform with bat and ball at the same time, so he is not as much of an option to some. I would have loved to have seen how a pure spinning bowling lineup would have faired- Benaud, Warne, Grimmett and O'Reilly in one team would be viewing heaven.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Hi all.

New to the forum, this is my first post. Nice to find a forum of people interested in discussing cricket fairly seriously.

I love the all time XI debate, my team would look like this:

1. Barry Richards
2. Jack Hobbs
3. Don Bradman
4. Viv Richards
5. Garfield Sobers
6. Adam Gilchrist
7. Imran Khan
8. Shane Warne
9. Dennis Lillee
10. Michael Holding
11. Bill O'Reilly

12. Wally Hammond

Points to note:

Heaps of bowling options:

Lillee
Holding
Imran
O'Reilly
Warne
Sobers

All intimidating bowlers who were smart as well. Two spinners could be changed on a quicker wicket by dropping O'Reilly for another batsman (Hammond)

Fast scoring batsmen all the way down the order, with Hobbs the "anchor":

Barry Richards: attacking colossus who would have been the second best test batsman ever had SA played tests in his prime.
Bradman: obviously a big scorer, but a really quick scorer as well.
Viv: Punishing batsman, esp against pace.
Sobers: Big hitting LH entertainer with a huge average.
Gilchrist: As above.

Imran, Warne and the tail-enders could all have a dip too.


One possible change would be to drop Imran for either Akram or Alan Davidson (to allow left arm variety), but Sobers covers that okay. Imran would be skipper.
Welcome to the forum Mark :)

I also like the idea of Imran as skipper :D

I like your team too but the tail is quite long. Although the top 5 batsman are pretty strong.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Aubrey Faulkner and Wilfred Rhodes would be two prominent examples, although many debate that Rhodes did not perform with bat and ball at the same time, so he is not as much of an option to some. I would have loved to have seen how a pure spinning bowling lineup would have faired- Benaud, Warne, Grimmett and O'Reilly in one team would be viewing heaven.
I would much prefer to watch spinners operate than most quicks, but unfortunately you need two quicks in a team...

Clarke opens bowling with spinner Michael Beer against West Indies | The Roar

That said, I reckon it could be tried a bit more, especially in second innings. When I heard about the above, I was surprised that Warne had never opened the bowling when we were trying to bowl a team out on day 4 or 5.

We could creatively squeeze all those spinners in to an Aus XI, with a few fast bowling all-rounders for balance!

Spinner's Heaven XI (Australian)

1. Arthur Morris
2. Victor Trumper
3. Don Bradman
4. Greg Chappell
5. Keith Miller
6. Richie Benaud
7. Bert Oldfield (you'd like Gilly for the batting, but have a look at Oldfield's games/stumpings stats)
8. Alan Davidson
9. Shane Warne
10. Bill O'Reilly
11. Clarrie Grimmett
 

Jager

International Debutant
I would much prefer to watch spinners operate than most quicks, but unfortunately you need two quicks in a team...
Traditionally yes, but O'Reilly was very familiar with opening the bowling at club level, so maybe there is a chance of playing a pure spin attack in a team- taking the chance of opening with Warne, who bowled with a higher arm action than Grimmett who was slightly round-arm. Personally I think that spin is vastly overshadowed by pace bowling because of the advent of covered wickets. If only they were willing to uncover them again, it would certainly sort the men from the boys.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Traditionally yes, but O'Reilly was very familiar with opening the bowling at club level, so maybe there is a chance of playing a pure spin attack in a team- taking the chance of opening with Warne, who bowled with a higher arm action than Grimmett who was slightly round-arm. Personally I think that spin is vastly overshadowed by pace bowling because of the advent of covered wickets. If only they were willing to uncover them again, it would certainly sort the men from the boys.
The issue primarily occurring with leg spinner is the seam of the ball cutting in to the knuckle of the spinning finger, causing discomfort and preventing them from bowling long spells.

Finger spinners, like Hafeez, Beer and co. all do not use that area of the finger to spin the ball, and the seam does not pose such problems.

If I were looking for an XI of all spin bowlers, you'd open with either off- or orthodox spinners, and back it up with a variety of others.

Australian Spin XI:
1. Bob Simpson
2. Bill Brown (?)
3. Charlie Macartney
4. Mark Waugh
5. Michael Clarke (c)
6. Adam Gilchrist (wk)
7. Warwick Armstrong
8. Hugh Trumble
9. Shane Warne
10. Bill O'Reilly
11. Clarrie Grimmett

Open with Trumble and Macartney. Picked Armstrong above Benaud to add extra batting depth.
 
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Jager

International Debutant
The issue primarily occurring with leg spinner is the seam of the ball cutting in to the knuckle of the spinning finger, causing discomfort and preventing them from bowling long spells.
O'Reilly had an extremely unorthodox grip though, so maybe that would change things (as well as the fact he is used to opening the bowling).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/OReillysGrip.jpg

I'd also throw Charlie Macartney into that side, he was a fine left-arm orthodox spinner and one of the most criminally underrated batsmen in history.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
O'Reilly had an extremely unorthodox grip though, so maybe that would change things (as well as the fact he is used to opening the bowling).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/OReillysGrip.jpg

I'd also throw Charlie Macartney into that side, he was a fine left-arm orthodox spinner and one of the most criminally underrated batsmen in history.
Just after I posted that Macartney came to mind. Actually just came back to edit him in.

He is definitely underrated. Was a fantastic unorthodox player, extremely aggressive and could score anywhere. When he made runs, he made them quick.
 
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Jager

International Debutant
Just after I posted that Macartney came to mind. Actually just came back to edit him in.
Great minds. How do you think a team with four all-time great spinners would fare? I genuinely think it'd be a huge success, especially in the modern day game.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Great minds. How do you think a team with four all-time great spinners would fare? I genuinely think it'd be a huge success, especially in the modern day game.
It depends on where the game is being played. Obviously in England, South Africa or Australia they probably wouldn't do as well, however knowing the penchant of modern batsmen to plant the front foot and hit across the line, and the general struggle by many sides to play quality spin, a side with 3 ATG spinners would be near-unbeatable in almost any conditions.

If we're creating such a team:

Jack Hobbs
Wilfred Rhodes
Charlie Macartney
Wally Hammond
Gary Sobers
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Richard Hadlee
Shane Warne
Bill O'Reilly
Muttiah Muralitharan

(excluding Bradman)

That gives you a very, very strong side. Miller and Hadlee to take the shine off the ball, Warne, O'Reilly and Murali to bowl the bulk, plus Rhodes, Macartney and Sobers to chip in if needed.

Who would you pick?
 

watson

Banned
Great minds. How do you think a team with four all-time great spinners would fare? I genuinely think it'd be a huge success, especially in the modern day game.
I'm not so sure. India played four great spinners in the 70's with limited success.

Bedi, Prasanna, Venkat and Chandra seem awesome on paper but in reality a pair of classy fast bowlers clean up batting orders more consistently (eg. Lillee and Thomo, Imran and Wasim, Holding and Roberts, Marshall and anyone else).

However, having said that, give me Underwood on a mud-heap any time.........
 

Jager

International Debutant
I'm not so sure. India played four great spinners in the 70's with limited success.

Bedi, Prasanna, Venkat and Chandra seem awesome on paper but in reality a pair of classy fast bowlers clean up batting orders more consistently (eg. Lillee and Thomo, Imran and Wasim, Holding and Roberts, Marshall and anyone else).

However, having said that, give me Underwood on a mud-heap any time.........
Actually, they only played together as a bowling unit once (which surprised me!). I'd classify them as 'good' but definitely not 'great' like Grimmett and his company.

rvd- I like your team, especially because it has Miller. if I was going to play a spin based team, I'd also try and use batsmen who were masters of spin bowling, just to make it more interesting.

Hobbs
Morris
Harvey
Compton
Lara
Macartney
Evans+
Benaud*
Laker
Underwood
O'Reilly

All batsmen were absolute masters of spin bowling. We have left-arm and right-arm off-spin options (Underwood and Macartney the lefties and Laker the traditional off-spinner) and leg-spin going both ways too (Benaud and O'Reilly with the right arm and Compton with the left). Benaud is one of the finest captains ever and would always be attacking in his deployment of spin. Evans was one of the best wicketkeepers to spin bowling and edged out Knott for me. Underwood would annihilate the opposition on a glue-pot, Laker on a dustbowl and O'Reilly... pretty much anywhere.
 

watson

Banned
Actually, they only played together as a bowling unit once (which surprised me!). I'd classify them as 'good' but definitely not 'great' like Grimmett and his company.

rvd- I like your team, especially because it has Miller. if I was going to play a spin based team, I'd also try and use batsmen who were masters of spin bowling, just to make it more interesting.

Hobbs
Morris
Harvey
Compton
Lara
Macartney
Evans+
Benaud*
Laker
Underwood
O'Reilly

All batsmen were absolute masters of spin bowling. We have left-arm and right-arm off-spin options (Underwood and Macartney the lefties and Laker the traditional off-spinner) and leg-spin going both ways too (Benaud and O'Reilly with the right arm and Compton with the left). Benaud is one of the finest captains ever and would always be attacking in his deployment of spin. Evans was one of the best wicketkeepers to spin bowling and edged out Knott for me. Underwood would annihilate the opposition on a glue-pot, Laker on a dustbowl and O'Reilly... pretty much anywhere.
O'Reilly would be sensational except when Hutton is compiling 364 runs against him, and everyone elso is chipping in to take the team tally to 903.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Actually, they only played together as a bowling unit once (which surprised me!). I'd classify them as 'good' but definitely not 'great' like Grimmett and his company.
This is true, and a great shame the experiment was never repeated. That once was in England in 1967 and the four of them bowled England out twice for around 500 altogether - they lost easily because their batting was so woeful that series but a few years on, when Gavaskar and Vishy were around, and had Pataudi had both eyes, they'd have had more support and I think it would have been an interesting combination
 

Jager

International Debutant
O'Reilly would be sensational except when Hutton is compiling 364 runs against him, and everyone elso is chipping in to take the team tally to 903.
He was easily the best bowler on that pitch. Off the top of my head, he took 3/187 I believe, and no batsman was ever dominant over him during that innings. I think Fleetwood-Smith went for over 290 runs (298, once again from memory).
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
He was easily the best bowler on that pitch. Off the top of my head, he took 3/187 I believe, and no batsman was ever dominant over him during that innings. I think Fleetwood-Smith went for over 290 runs (298, once again from memory).
1/298 for Chuck, I believe. Most expensive bowling figures ever.

When I compiled my XI I was looking more at batsmen who could bowl spin, as compared to playing it. Your side would be near-unbeatable as well, especially on a wet wicket.
 

Jager

International Debutant
1/298 for Chuck, I believe. Most expensive bowling figures ever.

When I compiled my XI I was looking more at batsmen who could bowl spin, as compared to playing it. Your side would be near-unbeatable as well, especially on a wet wicket.
I just thought I'd take it in a new direction :)

Fleetwood-Smith had Hammond LBW for 59, so at least he took a big scalp.

Also, I found this- it's quite an interesting reason for the huge score.

"A curiosity of the day's cricket was that four times a no-ball led either to the wicket being hit or the ball being caught."
 

Flametree

International 12th Man
T
If I were looking for an XI of all spin bowlers, you'd open with either off- or orthodox spinners, and back it up with a variety of others.

Australian Spin XI:
1. Bob Simpson
2. Bill Brown (?)
3. Charlie Macartney
4. Mark Waugh
5. Michael Clarke (c)
6. Adam Gilchrist (wk)
7. Warwick Armstrong
8. Hugh Trumble
9. Shane Warne
10. Bill O'Reilly
11. Clarrie Grimmett

Open with Trumble and Macartney. Picked Armstrong above Benaud to add extra batting depth.
Bob Cowper is the opening bat you need - has a surprisingly good bowling average.

And surely the keeper has to be Timmy Zoehrer just in case the other 10 guys can't get a wicket....8-)
 

kyear2

International Coach
The issue primarily occurring with leg spinner is the seam of the ball cutting in to the knuckle of the spinning finger, causing discomfort and preventing them from bowling long spells.

Finger spinners, like Hafeez, Beer and co. all do not use that area of the finger to spin the ball, and the seam does not pose such problems.

If I were looking for an XI of all spin bowlers, you'd open with either off- or orthodox spinners, and back it up with a variety of others.

Australian Spin XI:
1. Bob Simpson
2. Bill Brown (?)
3. Charlie Macartney
4. Mark Waugh
5. Michael Clarke (c)
6. Adam Gilchrist (wk)
7. Warwick Armstrong
8. Hugh Trumble
9. Shane Warne
10. Bill O'Reilly
11. Clarrie Grimmett

Open with Trumble and Macartney. Picked Armstrong above Benaud to add extra batting depth.
Bruce Mitchell and Viv Richards also bowled a bit of spin and would also strengthen the batting.
 

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