CW All-Time XI

[Jager]

But he didn't stay true to his wishes at all though. Sobers complicates things because if you count him as a batsman, there was no all-rounder, and if you count him as an all-rounder, he's only picked 2 middle order batsman. He's also failed to pick a keeper who was also a good bat - Tallon averaged 17 in Tests and is way out of his depth at 6. Then you have Lindwall forced to bat 2 places too high at 7, Bedser an unnecessary extra seamer, and, as you've mentioned, no left arm spinner.

The essence of his selection is "I am such a great player at 3 that I can afford to have a batting line-up which ends at 5, and all my favourite contemporaries can get to play".

I was referring to Bradman's Australian team. Also, Bradman realised Tallon's talent with the bat. I've said before many times, he didn't have health on his side when he was in the squad. His FC record shows to some extent that he was a decent batsman- at least better than his test average shows.

 

[zaremba]

Ah, my mistake, sorry, I thought you meant his all time XI

 

[Jager]

Ah, my mistake, sorry, I thought you meant his all time XI

No worries, I was admittedly very vague is it valid to take a player's FC record to judge a small area of their skill? E.g a player like Tallon with a good FC record but underperformed in tests. or a player like Paynter who clobbered everyone during his short test career yet didn't have the flashiest FC record.

 

[zaremba]

I reckon it's definitely valid to do so, although once you have a big enough sample size it may start to appear that someone is just better suited to one form of the game than the other. An obvious example is Ramprakash who struggled in Tests, and there are examples going the other way like Gower and Warne who thrived on the bigger occasion.

Usually you'd expect someone's FC figures to be a bit better than their Test figures, though, so in the case of Tallon, who averaged a little under 30 in FC cricket, you'd guess that he's better than his Test record suggests, but not enormously so. This is all speaking in broad terms though - I don't know much about him as a batsman or what factors may have been at work.

 

[fredfertang]

In fairness to Tallon Australia didn't need many runs from number 8 when he played for them

 

[kyear2]

Could have been said about quite a few lower middle order batsmen for great teams, some even used it as an excuse for Marshall who had a similar average. All the same though never seemed to stop Gilchrist from dropping the hammer.
Cant justify batting Tallon at 6

 

[Jager]

Maybe not at 6, you're right, but 7 is fine for me. Also, I just read that Richie Benaud rates Ray Illingworth, Mike Brearley, Keith Miller, Ian Chappell and Mark Taylor as the five best captains he ever saw. Miller has certainly been given high praise for his skipper skills from what I've picked up.

 

[kyear2]

What a surprise, a list filled with Englishmen and Australians. Mr. Benaud seems to frequently have ashes tinted glasses when compiling most of ratings. One of the reasons I don't take his ratings too seriously.

 

[smash84]

maybe it could actually be that having seen so much cricket he feels that these are the top 5 captains he has ever seen

 

[Jager]

maybe it could actually be that having seen so much cricket he feels that these are the top 5 captains he has ever seen

This

 

[kyear2]

I have stated my opinion as he has stated his. What is the proble.

Of more importance why do you refuse to pick in the Taboo draft?

 

[Jager]

I have stated my opinion as he has stated his. What is the proble.

Of more importance why do you refuse to pick in the Taboo draft?

Sorry mate, had a massively busy weekend. We just have conflicting opinions, no big deal. Who else do you rate highly as captains?

 

[kyear2]

Sorry too, came out more harshly than intended.

Captaincy is very subjective, but part of it should be team success, ability to nurture or motivate players, mental toughness and tactically ability. My problem with Benaud is that for most of his slections do favor Aussies and Englishmen to a certain degree. That is just my opinion.

 

[Jager]

Sorry too, came out more harshly than intended.

Captaincy is very subjective, but part of it should be team success, ability to nurture or motivate players, mental toughness and tactically ability. My problem with Benaud is that for most of his slections do favor Aussies and Englishmen to a certain degree. That is just my opinion.

Haha, no worries. I can understand why you think that, but I will disagree. His ATG side is a great mix, and I think his is an extremely considered opinion.

 

[smash84]

Sorry too, came out more harshly than intended.

Captaincy is very subjective, but part of it should be team success, ability to nurture or motivate players, mental toughness and tactically ability. My problem with Benaud is that for most of his slections do favor Aussies and Englishmen to a certain degree. That is just my opinion.

yeah kyear2. Who do you rate highly as captain?

 

[Red]

Hi all.

New to the forum, this is my first post. Nice to find a forum of people interested in discussing cricket fairly seriously.

I love the all time XI debate, my team would look like this:

1. Barry Richards
2. Jack Hobbs
3. Don Bradman
4. Viv Richards
5. Garfield Sobers
6. Adam Gilchrist
7. Imran Khan
8. Shane Warne
9. Dennis Lillee
10. Michael Holding
11. Bill O'Reilly

12. Wally Hammond

Points to note:

Heaps of bowling options:

Lillee
Holding
Imran
O'Reilly
Warne
Sobers

All intimidating bowlers who were smart as well. Two spinners could be changed on a quicker wicket by dropping O'Reilly for another batsman (Hammond)

Fast scoring batsmen all the way down the order, with Hobbs the "anchor":

Barry Richards: attacking colossus who would have been the second best test batsman ever had SA played tests in his prime.
Bradman: obviously a big scorer, but a really quick scorer as well.
Viv: Punishing batsman, esp against pace.
Sobers: Big hitting LH entertainer with a huge average.
Gilchrist: As above.

Imran, Warne and the tail-enders could all have a dip too.


One possible change would be to drop Imran for either Akram or Alan Davidson (to allow left arm variety), but Sobers covers that okay. Imran would be skipper.

 

[kyear2]

Nice team, just think the tail is a tad long.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Red]

Nice team, just think the tail is a tad long.

Welcome to the forum.

True. The balance of these teams is sometimes tough to find. I guess to strengthen the tail I'd go:

B. Richards
Hobbs
Bradman
Hammond
V. Richards
Sobers
Gilchrist
Imran
Warne
Lillee
Holding

But I do like the idea of O'Reilly/Warne working together on day 4 and 5!

 

[Jager]

Excellent team Monk, great to see someone else placing two spinners in their team.

 

[Red]

Just messing around with combos now, but thinking about intimidating batting line-ups that can bowl as well (ie. playing a shirt-load of all-rounders after the top 3 batsmen!):

A balanced team that bats right until 11 (and has 7 genuine bowling options)


Barry Richards
Jack Hobbs
Don Bradman
Jaques Kallis
Garry Sobers
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Ian Botham
Imran Khan
Richie Benaud
Richard Hadlee


Sorry Kapil Dev and Wasim Akram

Can't think of many genuine spinning all rounders apart from Benaud...