*Official* English Football Season 2011-12

[vic_orthdox]

Yeah, true RE: Balotelli.

 

[sledger]

I went:

Match: Liverpool 4 Arsenal 4
Goal: Le Tiss 2nd
Celebration: Cantona by a million miles. Balotelli's Why Always Me? not making the list is a shocker.
Save: Schmeichel's first
Team: Schmeichel, Neville, Terry, Adams, Cole, Ronaldo, Vieira, Keane, Giggs, Henry, Shearer.

Yeah, almost exactly the same for me.

Cbf with the celebration one, was Facundo Sava's batman mask thing included in the nominations?

Agree with the team as well, feel bad for leaving out Pires and Bergkamp, but really feel on the whole that is the best side possible.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Yeah I was pretty similar:

Match: Liverpool 4 Arsenal 4
Goal: Le Tissier's 2nd
Celebration: Cantona
Save: Schmeichel's first
Team: Schmeichel, Neville, Stam, Adams, Cole, Ronaldo, Vieira, Scholes, Giggs, Henry, Shearer.

 

[Pothas]

Think I would go with the above side but probably have Bergkamp over Shearer.

 

[Uppercut]

Cbf with the celebration one, was Facundo Sava's batman mask thing included in the nominations?

Nope. They even introduced the category with a picture of Shearer's hand-in-the-air .

Good to see I've kicked off a debate about diving vs. cynical fouling in the F365 mailbox.

 

[Pothas]

Is an interesting debate and certainly has a lot to do with English football culture. I've always felt there is a big difference between diving to get a free kick and rolling around holding your face. Not for any moral reason but just because it makes them look pathetic.

Can be probe to a bit of idealism myself when it comes to Football so probably dislike cynical fouls more than most, hated the way Holland played in the World cup final for example even it it was not that far away from working. You need that sort of side to exist though, contrast in style is one of the bet things about football.

 

[sledger]

As I said the other day, I don't enjoy seeing either, but I marginally prefer cynical fouling to diving. Having said that, there are various categories of diving, some being more worthy of condemnation than others.

Dives that are meant to win a freekick or a penalty aren't good, but I can understand it if a player wants to go down easily etc... Particularly if the defender has made a rubbish challenge and given the attacking player an excuse. But I really really hate it when you see a dive where clearly the only intention the player has is to go down, especially when they are already in a decent attacking position. Ashley Young's against Aston Villa the other day and Andy Carroll against Newcastle a few weeks back are prime examples of this.

Dives which involve a lot of whinging and rolling over ten times and holding injured body parts on the other hand, are just pathetic and need to be clamped down on,

Cynical fouling and thuggish play should be given short shrift as well, but I still think its slightly better than diving. Granted, neither of these phenomena are good, but because of the lack of honesty/integrity involved in diving I'm much less sympathetic towards those who do it. Then again, to that sounds a bit like saying "Robbing someone at gun point is more acceptable than conning an old lady out of her money by being deceitful".

 

[Uppercut]

Haha that's a really good analogy, there's something intensely infuriating about those stories of men in vans claiming to be electricians so they can rob old ladies that gunpoint robberies don't quite capture. Maybe it's the violation of trust that really gets our goat. Diving doesn't really inspire any kind of outrage in me at all but I'm definitely up for a clampdown on rolling around on the ground.

Really good article here on tactical fouling: Michael Cox -- Punishment doesn't fit the crime for tactical fouls - ESPN. As systematic cynicism goes it's an excellent tactic because it's not immediately obvious how big an advantage you can gain from it.

 

[Pothas]

Yeah interesting stuff, would not say the all the fouls Messi and other Barcelona forward players comit are cynical though, they often just trying to get the ball back as quickly as possible. Scored a goal last week by Alexis quickly winning the ball back.

Cynical fouls happen at all levels of course, Notts County did it constantly to us at the weekend, little fouls just inside their own half and backed themselves to defend the balls which we launched into the box which they did well. It did not stop any free flowing counter attacks but the principal is the same.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah interesting stuff, would not say the all the fouls Messi and other Barcelona forward players comit are cynical though, they often just trying to get the ball back as quickly as possible. Scored a goal last week by Alexis quickly winning the ball back.

Hmm, it's a thin and often non-existent line. I generally advise the midfielders in front of me that if they tackle a player facing our goal properly they'll either win the ball or give away a free kick. That's the strategy Barca's forwards use- it's certainly a genuine effort to win the ball, but the technique that they go in with is infused with cynicism because it's designed to be a foul if it fails. Guys like Song and Lucas are masters of it, and they know exactly where and when to go for a fail=foul tackle and where they need to avoid giving away a free kick.

How do you even start to clamp down on something like that? It has a huge adverse effect on the game as a spectacle, but almost no football-watchers even appreciate that it's happening.

 

[sledger]

Yeah, it's clearly something very difficult to regulate. In the absence of introducing a really harsh refereeing regime (which would no doubt be rife with injustices) or something like sin-binning (which I don't think many people, myself included, would welcome) it's hard to see how you'd get this out of the game.

At the end of the day though, the best teams tend to rise above tactics such as this. Barcelona and Arsenal - when they had their dominant side, get/used to get kicked to death all the time, but it's an unsophisticated and ham-fisted tactic, and quality football will often prevail in the face of it.

 

[cpr]

Went with:

Match: Utd 4-3 City. Bit of an emotional rollercoaster that one for the partizan fan
Goal: Le tiss 2nd
Celebration: Cantona - some of them were awful. Ooh look at Gerard kiss the badge at OT, might aswell stick in the Neviller doing the same to the Liverpool fans. Picked the worst (or possibly the least cringeworthy) Lee Sharpe one in there...
Save: Schmeichels 2nd. Could've had a million better Shay Given ones in there though.

Team: Just the 6 utd players

GK: Schmeichel
RB: Neviller
CD Rio/Terry
LB Irwin (could never vote Cole)
RW Beckham
LW Giggs
CM Scholes/Le Tiss
CF Shearer/Bergkamp

If Le Tiss was down as a striker it'd be Bergkamp out, Vieira in (yes, over Keane)

 

[sledger]

Yeah, it's clearly something very difficult to regulate. In the absence of introducing a really harsh refereeing regime (which would no doubt be rife with injustices) or something like sin-binning (which I don't think many people, myself included, would welcome) it's hard to see how you'd get this out of the game.

At the end of the day though, the best teams tend to rise above tactics such as this. Barcelona and Arsenal - when they had their dominant side, get/used to get kicked to death all the time, but it's an unsophisticated and ham-fisted tactic, and quality football will often prevail in the face of it.

Having said that, it's obviously going to pose a lot more trouble for lesser sides, particularly those in lesser divisions I suspect, who obviously can't rely on the talents of Messi and Henry etc... but whom still want to play with a nice style rather than hoofing it and constantly fouling.

 

[sledger]

Match: Utd 4-3 City. Bit of an emotional rollercoaster that one for the partizan fan

I remember watching that game in a pub near my halls of residence in Reading. There was a group of 4 Asian guys sat around a table not far across the room from me, they were obviously all friends and were all joking and bantering etc., but two of them were sporting Man Utd tops, and the other two were in City attire. Was hilarious watching them descend into argument as the game progressed. I remember after Owen scored the last goal one of the City fans stood up and shouted "what the **** is this ****?!? If that's how you want to win it - by ****ing cheating- then **** you!" and stormed out, much to my amusement.

The things we go through for sport. Deary me.

 

[Uppercut]

I was watching in one of those bars where you can't move. When Citeh scored their injury time equaliser half the place went nuts and the guy behind me jumped up and threw his beer all over me, before offering an intentionally infuriating 'sorry, got a little excited there!' in apology. When Owen scored two minutes later I went ****ing nuts right in front of him, best moment.

 

[GIMH]

Don't know the nominations but these would be my choices

Match: either Liverpool 4-4 Arse or Liverpool 4-3 Newcastle
Goal: Bergkamp V Leicester (I think)
Celebration: Ketsbaia
Save: would have to watch them
best side: invincibles 03-04
Team

Schmeichel

Neville
Ferdinand
Campbell
Cashley

Beckham
Scholes
Gerrard
Giggs

Bergkamp
Shearer

Can't believe I left Henry out

Edit - probably too Anglocentric, or britcentric, but tbf it contains man u players and their core is normally British

 

[The Sean]

The CM positions are giving me the most grief - five blokes I want to pick, two spots to put them in.

 

[GIMH]

Which five?

 

[The Sean]

Which five?

The big four - Keane, Vieira, Gerrard and Scholes, plus Le Tiss because he's awesome.

 

[sledger]

Le Tissier is apparently Xavi's favourite player, according to Wiki anyway.