Who is the best fast bowler in the world right now - Tests

[Agent Nationaux]

I was just explaining that I like a variety in my attack which is why I wouldn't like to have both Steyn and Anderson in my team, something which most people on here would find incredible to watch.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Yeah he was, but only because he was a natural reverse swing bowler. He got most of his wickets with inswing, getting the older ball to reverse. But with the new ball he bowled outswing. That's how I remember it anyway.

Yeah

 

[Sparkley]

Steyn's two tests in UAE is often brought up by a group of people because there's almost nothing else for them to point out.

I'd agree with this to an extent. When you have a mind bogglingly good record even a tiny aberration gets magnified. As I mentioned before, there is no way you can compare Anderson's UAE stats to Steyn's UAE stats without being dishonest to yourself and that is ignoring mitigating factors like Steyn's injury at that time. Also agree re Morkel. Better bowler than Broad.

 

[GIMH]

Good swing bowlers have always done well in India. Anderson's already had some success previously in India I think - haven't looked at his figures. It was a seam bowler like Broad I wasn't sure about. But the way he bowled in the UAE, I think he'll do very well too (unless he reverts back pre July '11).

Gunned it in Mumbai 06, one of my favourite ever test matches

 

[Jacknife]

I prefer the new ball swinging inwards rather than out. So personally would always prefer to watch someone like Waqar than Steyn or Anderson. Plus no one swing it more than Waqar.

You do know Jimmy swings both ways,

 

[Jacknife]

I'd agree with this to an extent. When you have a mind bogglingly good record even a tiny aberration gets magnified. As I mentioned before, there is no way you can compare Anderson's UAE stats to Steyn's UAE stats without being dishonest to yourself and that is ignoring mitigating factors like Steyn's injury at that time. Also agree re Morkel. Better bowler than Broad.

You mention mitigating factors and I agree bowlers can have real trouble getting back to 100%, takes longer depending on what injuries and how long they've been out of action but it sure hasn't stopped people from bringing up Broad's Sri Lanka performance after he'd just come back from back to back serious injuries.

 

[Manee]

I prefer the new ball swinging inwards rather than out. So personally would always prefer to watch someone like Waqar than Steyn or Anderson. Plus no one swing it more than Waqar.

I'm sure I've seen Anderson bowl a few old ball deliveries with a bit of a slingy action to try to get massive inswing but not get the line quite right. If he could master that skill, he might really be able to destroy tailenders when he is reversing it.

 

[mohammad16]

Anderson gets massive swing in England with the Duke ball. I doubt other teams are intimidated by him in the Subcontinent or just anywhere outside England. Anyone noticed his bowling in UAE in the recent test series against Pakistan? Other seam bowlers were getting more movement than him, although there wasnt much there for anyone.

Steyn seems a threat anywhere he goes.


Broad might actually do better than Anderson in India because he is pretty decent with seam when he pitches the ball up.

 

[marc71178]

Anderson gets massive swing in England with the Duke ball. I doubt other teams are intimidated by him in the Subcontinent or just anywhere outside England.

I don't give a flying **** whether teams were intimidated by him or not when you look at the results he has got in the last 18 months or more away from home.

I do love how the goalposts move for players. Nothing till they do it in the Ashes, then it's nothing till they prove themselves in the sub-continent. Now it's got to be done in India.

Then again he's like a vampire, terrible when there's no cloud cover.

 

[mohammad16]

I don't give a flying **** whether teams were intimidated by him or not when you look at the results he has got in the last 18 months or more away from home.

I do love how the goalposts move for players. Nothing till they do it in the Ashes, then it's nothing till they prove themselves in the sub-continent. Now it's got to be done in India.

Then again he's like a vampire, terrible when there's no cloud cover.

TBH it really could be different this time around. Indians are really struggling in the spin department, their swing bowling line up is probably what they are relying on. They may just prepare relatively more grassy surfaces this time around, also considering England have a couple of decent spinners. If the wickets are again flat in India, I doubt either of these sides will find it easy to grab 20 wickets in a test match. A typical flat now but spin later wicket might also produce draws due to the depleted Indian spin line up, so India might opt for more sporting surfaces.

Who knows, Anderson might fare well in India.

 

[FBU]

Some grounds to forget. Of course they can go back there and change their figures.

Anderson
Brisbane 103.00
Headingley 68.80
Wanderers 130.00
Mohali 67.50
Antigua 61.50
Kandy 83.50
Napier 153.00
Bridgetown 41.66

Steyn
St Georges Park 41.75
Dubai 70.00
Lords 117.00
Kolkata 115.00
Bassetere 105.00
Dunedin 52.00
Lahore 58.00
Colombo 43.00
Perth 40.50

 

[Arachnodouche]

Oh so now it's they have to prove themselves in India now. before it was the subcontinent.

I suggest you go look up their figures then. For all the improvement he's done over the last few years, he didn't pick up more than 10 wickets in the UAE, and wasn't able to save his side from a whitewash. 30 wickets across 10 Tests (hasn't played in Pak) don't single him out as the world beater you lot would have shoved down everyone's throats. Since this is such a results-oriented site, let us see him do what Steyn's done in India, and then reassess.

 

[Jono]

He doesn't need to be as good as Steyn to be a very very good fast bowler though.

 

[Spark]

I suggest you go look up their figures then. For all the improvement he's done over the last few years, he didn't pick up more than 10 wickets in the UAE, and wasn't able to save his side from a whitewash. 30 wickets across 10 Tests (hasn't played in Pak) don't single him out as the world beater you lot would have shoved down everyone's throats. Since this is such a results-oriented site, let us see him do what Steyn's done in India, and then reassess.

Results are important when assessing a team as a whole; when evaluating how well someone bowled you generally just look at how well they bowled.

@AN: if you want an inswing bowler then Anderson is basically your first choice.

 

[LegendaryProtea]

LOL you think Broad bowled on helpful tracks in UAE, even in England against India 2 of the sets were played on pretty flat pitches. Really surprised you've tried to put him down like this considering who Philander has got his wickets against and where.

Where has anyone compared Broad to Steyn anyway, if anything it's Jimmy against Steyn, which someone posted a link to a cricinfo artcle above somewhere that did just that. The last 2 years Steyn averages 21. Jimmy 23. Since the beginning of the India Series Broad has taken 40 wickets at 17.

England at home have a formidable line up, best attack in the world, best Keeper batsman in the world, how can we not win.

They were helpful relative to the flat roads that were served up when we toured the Emirates. Broad bowled exceedingly well in the UAE tour but the fact is that there was much more help than in the past. I'm not even going to take the India series into account because India didn't even put up a fight. Again, Broad bowled very well but India didn't even have the stomach to put up a fight. I don't even know where you got the idea that I put down Broad. I said he struggled prior the India series and his place was under threat, that's just fact. Saying that he's not as good as someone else isn't to say he isn't good, I think he's a fine bowler but nowhere near the South African pace attack.

Yeah, Philander has got his wickets against AUS at home, SL at home and NZL away. Broad has got his wickets against IND at home and a pretty weak PAK batting line-up in the UAE. What's your point? You're trying to make it out as if Philander has been on green tops all along. The Cape Town pitch against AUS and the Centurion pitch against SL were the only two really helpful tracks. Everything else was pretty batter-friendly, even the pitches in New Zealand were fairly placid.

 

[Spark]

Cricketing logic: "I'm not going to take into account the fact that said bowler averaged 13 against one of the greatest batting lineups of all time... because he averaged 13 and hence made them look ****.". What you've basically done is said that "Assume Broad isn't that good. Because he's not that good, any good performances of his were down to him not being that good. Therefore, he's not that good".

The idea that Broad is nowhere near the South African pace attack is laughable. Like, actually so laughable it doesn't even bear serious contemplation. Come on, seriously. Have you watched some of the rubbish served up by your third or fourth paceman in the last six months to a year on occasion, whoever that may be? Philander is probably the in-form paceman in the world at the moment, but be serious here.

Where's this idea that Azhar Ali/Younis Khan/Misbah-ul-Haq are **** batsmen come from, btw? And precisely what help was there in those pitches for quick bowlers?

 

[Uppercut]

The pitch for the second test in UAE had a lot of help for the spinners but almost nothing for the fast bowlers. As far as one could tell by watching conditions in the first and third test weren't any more difficult for batsmen than when South Africa toured in 2010, and everything said by the players over the course of those tests suggested as much. The consensus at the time was that England had just bowled very well (especially Broad) and batted spectacularly badly.

 

[Spark]

It generally doesn't matter how well you bowl if your middle order averages roughly twelve in a series.

 

[LegendaryProtea]

Cricketing logic: "I'm not going to take into account the fact that said bowler averaged 13 against one of the greatest batting lineups of all time... because he averaged 13 and hence made them look ****.". What you've basically done is said that "Assume Broad isn't that good. Because he's not that good, any good performances of his were down to him not being that good. Therefore, he's not that good".

The idea that Broad is nowhere near the South African pace attack is laughable. Like, actually so laughable it doesn't even bear serious contemplation. Come on, seriously. Have you watched some of the rubbish served up by your third or fourth paceman in the last six months to a year on occasion, whoever that may be? Philander is probably the in-form paceman in the world at the moment, but be serious here.

Where's this idea that Azhar Ali/Younis Khan/Misbah-ul-Haq are **** batsmen come from, btw? And precisely what help was there in those pitches for quick bowlers?

Nope, that's not what I've done at all but I appreciate your insight into my logic. It was one of the greatest batting line-ups ever on paper but just look at the way they played. Some woeful shots, they were jaded and there for the taking. Are you honestly claiming that they played like the greatest batting line-up ever and Broad was just too good for all these amazing batsmen on top of their game? Seriously? Dravid showed what could be done if some application and determination was shown.

A lot of Broad's wickets on that tour were against the Indian tail who had very little batting ability. I remember him consistently getting out the openers too who were just a mess, Mukund in his first few games, Gambhir who was injured then came back and Sehwag who got a king pair in his return Test, which shows you the lack of application. Broad only dismissed Dravid once and that was when he had to open because of Gambhir's injury. Are we going to start saying that the Australian pace attack is as good as England's because they destroyed the greatest batting line-up ever only a few months ago? Is Peter Siddle as good as Stuart Broad now on the back of one series?

What do our 3rd and 4th pacemen have to do with any of this? We're discussing Broad (and Anderson) vs. Steyn/Philander here in terms of a new-ball attack. What the hell do the likes of Tsotsobe have to do with any of this? You're saying that you would have Broad ahead of Steyn/Philander atm? Is that what you are claiming?

Those pitches were more friendly for bowlers of any description than those flat roads that were there when the South Africans toured? There was a little movement early on, I remember Cheema getting shape consistently and there was reverse swing later on in the last Test. The earlier Tests in the UAE provided absolutely nothing for pacers. That Pakistani batting line-up is weak, even Pakistan fans would admit it. Azhar is just a determined no. 3 (nothing particularly special), Younus and Misbah are good but the rest are horrible. Two good players doesn't automatically mean the batting line-up as a whole is strong, I'd say it's still weak.

 

[Spark]

A lot of Broad's wickets on that tour were against the Indian tail who had very little batting ability. I remember him consistently getting out the openers too who were just a mess, Mukund in his first few games, Gambhir who was injured then came back and Sehwag who got a king pair in his return Test, which shows you the lack of application. Broad only dismissed Dravid once and that was when he had to open because of Gambhir's injury.

Did you watch that series at all? Seriously?