So why do England play spin so abysmally now?

[Spark]

Well if you're talking a track like the one Clarke took 6-9 on, then sure. But if you're talking about similar decks to the ones England has faced in the UAE and SL so far, which is the basis for the thread, then if you're up against those blokes, you don't need to be Tendulkar/ Sehwag/ Clarke/ Doug Walters good to score runs. You just don't need to want to eithe block everything or sweep it.

Which more or less rules out a good three quarters of modern Test batsmen, so...

 

[Burgey]

Which more or less rules out a good three quarters of modern Test batsmen, so...

Don't agree with that mate. England + Watto doesn't = that many players.

 

[Spark]

Don't like what I've seen of Warner or Cowan against spin either, tbh.

Even more of an issue than the obsession with the sweep (which certainly exacerbates thing since it's an especially high-risk shot) is the inability so many have to work the spinner around for ones. It's what the most competent players of spin - not necessarily the most talented, though they often go hand in hand - are excellent at.

 

[Jono]

^I think you're either giving their performances abroad too much credence or you're just not an astute observer of cricket in India in general. Alone, they might prove to be slightly ineffectual, but put them together in tandem on a half helpful track, with fielders crowding the bat, and I can guarantee they'll be posing a very significant threat to most batting line ups.

For this English lineup, I wouldn't even mind bringing Harbhajan back and having a three pronged spin attack. Too bad we don't have a Ganguly to take the shine off the new ball anymore.

Exactly. Add to the fact Ojha plus Ashwin with men around the bat and India having chalked up 450+ runs on tracks they like to bat on is totally different to them bowling after India are all out 200 or trail by 250 runs in a test in Australia.

 

[Burgey]

Exactly. Add to the fact Ojha plus Ashwin with men around the bat and India having chalked up 450+ runs on tracks they like to bat on is totally different to them bowling after India are all out 200 or trail by 250 runs in a test in Australia.

What makes you think an Indian line up sans Dravid, and shortly Tendulkar and Laxman will do that?

 

[Jono]

Just want to make it clear first that you brought this on yourself. Don't leave the door open for me to do this:

 

[Turbinator]

Jono

 

[Spark]

jono wac

 

[Shri]

Put Ashwin and Ojha on a turner and they'll run through teams.

Ojha is a **** test bowler. Ashwin would enjoy pitches with variable bounce(like Delhi) more than turners since he bowls stump to stump and depends on subtle variations rather than huge turn for his wickets. Harbhajan on a turner can still be a beast like he showed us in the last tour of SA in the final test. And we have got Mishra/Chawla/Sharma etc in the spin bowling dept as back ups too. Ojha couldn't run through kids in the special olympics if he wanted to but the rest of the attacking leggies who have been bowling on roads forever have the ability to wreck batting line ups on turners if a few matches in the domestic tournaments are anything to go by.

 

[Burgey]

Jono, Mardi Gras was a few weeks back.

 

[zaremba]

Golly, that's a face that only a fist could love. And Jono, obv.

 

[Cabinet96]

As others have said I think the slow nature of the pitch, heat and men round the bat have all been major contributions. But I feel the main factor was Saeed Ajmal. The fact they couldn't pick his dosera was a big factor in why they struggled in the UAE, and it has scared them mentally. Take Ian Bell for instance, before the UAE he was averaging over 100 in the last year, and on top of the world. A first baller and 3 in the first match, falling to Ajmal's dosera both times would have really been a hit to his confidence.

What's also frustrating is that the bowling and conditions in the UAE are a lot different to what we are facing in Sri Lanka. The bowling was a lot quicker there and it's a lot slower here. Makes you wonder if they'd been practising for the right type of bowling.

I think if we'd played this series before the Pakistan series, we wouldn't have done so badly in the last match.


I think the sweep shot is over criticised here. Some of the best ever players of spin used the sweep very effectively and it's definitely a shot that can be used well in such conditions. Sure it looks bad when you get out, but had Bell charged down the wicket and got stumped it would have looked just as bad. Bell for instance used the paddle sweep very well against the likes of Mishra in the summer, so he can be forgiven for trying it in the last test, even if it may have cost us the match.

Always thought Warner was class against spin, tbh...

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Impressive to say the least.

Lately I feel Australia have been fine against spin in tests, but rather struggled against spin in ODI cricket. Get bogged down a lot more in that format.

Yeah, I remember Botha gave them a horrid time in the back to back series in 2008/09.

 

[Burgey]

Golly, that's a face that only a fist could love. And Jono, obv.

Jono's fist otherwise occupied tbh

 

[Son Of Coco]

Always thought Warner was class against spin, tbh...

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I see Mavis Murphy was playing for Victoria at the same time. What was she like? (Apart from obviously being a little manly)

 

[smash84]

As others have said I think the slow nature of the pitch, heat and men round the bat have all been major contributions. But I feel the main factor was Saeed Ajmal. The fact they couldn't pick his dosera was a big factor in why they struggled in the UAE, and it has scared them mentally. Take Ian Bell for instance, before the UAE he was averaging over 100 in the last year, and on top of the world. A first baller and 3 in the first match, falling to Ajmal's dosera both times would have really been a hit to his confidence.

What's also frustrating is that the bowling and conditions in the UAE are a lot different to what we are facing in Sri Lanka. The bowling was a lot quicker there and it's a lot slower here. Makes you wonder if they'd been practising for the right type of bowling.

I think if we'd played this series before the Pakistan series, we wouldn't have done so badly in the last match.

.

awta

 

[honestbharani]

If you want to talk about dominating spin in India, Andy Flower was by far the best I have EVER seen. He just decimated spin.

Decimating is not the word I would use.. But I have to say, no non-SC batsman made our spinners look as clueless as he did. They threw everything they had at him and he handled it all, with such ease and composure, it drove us fans nuts..

 

[smash84]

Zaheer Abbas?

 

[Migara]

Decimating is not the word I would use.. But I have to say, no non-SC batsman made our spinners look as clueless as he did. They threw everything they had at him and he handled it all, with such ease and composure, it drove us fans nuts..

Brian Lara says Hi! Indian spinners did get upper hand over him, especially Kumble. But he was all over SL and Pakistani spinners. We have missed the opportunity of seeing Warnaweera vs Lara battle (Warnaweera was even quicker than Kumble and spun it more, never played much due to his abrasie personality and ill discipline), wuld have been an epic.

 

[Jono]

HB was referring to India only I think. Lara never did as well vs. India compared to SL and Pak, as you say.

Flower is the best non-SC batsman I've ever seen play against Indian spin in India.

 

[Burgey]

HB was referring to India only I think. Lara never did as well vs. India compared to SL and Pak, as you say.

Flower is the best non-SC batsman I've ever seen play against Indian spin in India.

Hayden was ridiculously good in 2001, iirc.