Swing- one persistant Q..

[Merve'sTash]

.. that is always on my mind -and asked numerous times at matches, club, and no-one seems remotely interested or have any good answer- and a question too that I find perplexing that has never been mentioned on TMS tea-brek, or suchlike, is simply this:

How does a new ball swing? seems a straightfwd Q, but think about it. Both sides are equal/ there is absolutely not time to create any inequality with shine, or scuff (that would be verring twds illegal anyway). And assuming as we can too especially a Test match grade ball, that it is is symmetrical and one side is not cleverly 'found' to be fractionally in favour twds 'in' or 'out' too by some magician-physicist bowler (Harmison- erm, defo a no-no here). Assuming too that there is no obvious wind advantage, say its a still morning of a new test match..

And a new ball a std Kookaburra let's consider with its tendency to swing LESS that our Dukes so a more difficult proposition to swing first off/ and in conditions too that favour swing LESS than our english atmospheres if we consider Aus.. quite often I see the 1st delivery with a new ball swing. Jimmy Anderson in particular, consistantly, albeit a fraction only to start with maybe getting more progressive with wear as is to be expected.. or.. and the very best eg of all (and sorry to remind England fans) Steve Harmison's 1st "delivery" at the MCG iirc starting off twds line of batsman (ie its gonna slide down leg anyway) but swinging so voraciously that Strauss catches it at 2nd slip?! This was -the very first ball of a series- afaicr.

How? thoughts pls. MT

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Doesn't the use of an angled seam with the correct arm action for the specific swing (in or out) cause movement for a brand new ball.

 

[unam]

.. that is always on my mind -and asked numerous times at matches, club, and no-one seems remotely interested or have any good answer- and a question too that I find perplexing that has never been mentioned on TMS tea-brek, or suchlike, is simply this:

How does a new ball swing? seems a straightfwd Q, but think about it. Both sides are equal/ there is absolutely not time to create any inequality with shine, or scuff (that would be verring twds illegal anyway). And assuming as we can too especially a Test match grade ball, that it is is symmetrical and one side is not cleverly 'found' to be fractionally in favour twds 'in' or 'out' too by some magician-physicist bowler (Harmison- erm, defo a no-no here). Assuming too that there is no obvious wind advantage, say its a still morning of a new test match..

And a new ball, a std Kookaburra let's condider with its tendency to swing LESS that our Dukes so a more difficult proposition to swing first off/ and in conditions too that favour swing LESS than our english atmospheres if we consider Aus.. quite often I see the 1st delivery with a new ball swing. Jimmy Anderson in particular, consistantly, albeit a fraction only to start with maybe getting more progressive with wear as is to be expected.. or.. and the very best eg of all (and sorry to remind England fans) Steve Harmison's 1st "delivery" at the MCG iirc starting off twds line of batsman (ie its gonna slide down leg anyway) but swinging so voraciously that Strauss catches it at 2nd slip?! This was -the very first ball of a series- afaicr.

How? thoughts pls. MT

I am not sure myself. But my uncle says that one side of the new ball is slightly shorter than the other one. You wouldn't notice unless you look very closely.
On the other hand, if both sides are equal, we should be able to swing it by using the seam. Since the balance and shine on the both sides is same/equal, we should be able to make to the ball swing (IN and OUT) by making the seam face towards the batsman or away from batsman. ANY THOUGHTS?????

 

[Merve'sTash]

One side shorter eh? thats a new one, interesting idea. I do agree that it might boil down to the angle of the seam.. but Im not convinced, especially if we consider the kookaburra does not have a prominent seam and SH for eg wasn't really a swing bowler and iirc had the seam straight up as a general rule.

Looking at the Steve Harmison shocker again for eg..

Steve Harmison 1st ball of the 1st test match 2006/07 - YouTube

 

[uvelocity]

just natural release of the ball, arm angle and seam position.

 

[Burgey]

You ain't got a thing
If you don't have that swing

 

[Merve'sTash]

just natural release of the ball, arm angle and seam position.

Natural? I certainly dont call that ball natural.. in fact Im quite sure it had a native Aboriginal spell on it for us stealing their land a hundred years ago or whenever it was.

Anyone any ideas?

 

[zaremba]

A properly angled seam should make the brand new ball to swing in the air. Personally I think of it acting as a rudder, which as I'm aware is an enormous and misleading over-simplification. But it's a mechanism which doesn't rely on differentials in weight, polish, shine, roughness, size or anything else.

For these purposes, arm and wrist position (etc) is indeed relevant, but only insofar as it ensures that the angle of the seam is correct when it leaves the hand, and (by stablising the ball via backspin) remains correct during its flight.

 

[Merve'sTash]

mmm.. Im veering towards it being the product of witchcraft now.

I just dont remember a new ball swinging at all before really, say early 00's, I would always be accustomed to seeing a new ball go barrel-straight as Im still convinced it should with both sides being equal air-frictionally (Im not sold on it being a 'rudder-only' idea especially as said with the unprominent kookaburra). Im sure too that I haven't mulled over this quibble before say early/ mid 00's. And Ive been playing/ nerding over Test Match crix since early 80's.

 

[uvelocity]

merv's facial pubes I've always swung the ball the same way no matter which way round I hold when it's new. swing is not a new thing

 

[benchmark00]

 

[Merve'sTash]

Erm.. I reckon the big K keys belong to the big fatso Id leave those well alone.

I think if youtube had a better resolution Id be able to get a clip eg of a new/ 1st ball in a match, with a seam absolutely straight up, and it clearly swinging even just a bit.

Ive narrowed it down to either/or: witchcraft, and shenanigans (which is a form of funny Irish witchraft or something anyway isnt it?) and I mean suncream or dry-ice or sandpaper on one's trouser. Something like that.

 

[uvelocity]

you will just have to trust me mate that it's all in the action, and its just the way it is. indoor cricket ball does the exact same thing.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

It wasn't witchcraft but Waqar effect. It happens when the ball is brand new and the bowler is thinking about Waqar's swinging balls.

 

[benchmark00]

It wasn't witchcraft but Waqar effect. It happens when the ball is brand new and the bowler is thinking about Waqar's swinging balls.

Sounds like you think about Waqar's swinging balls often too.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Nah you ****. Waqar effect does not happen to me (can't get the new ball to swing).

 

[Hurricane]

also to Mervstash - We used to swing scuffed up compos to each other in the nets that didn't have a seam. At least this is what I remember.

 

[G.I.Joe]

From Don Bradman's Art of Cricket..

I'm no physicist, but this seems like a plausible explanation to me.

Credit to SJS for sharing a few pages with us.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

So basically seam position allows for the swing on a brand new cherry.

 

[G.I.Joe]

So basically seam position allows for the swing on a brand new cherry.

Yeah, that it's the seam position that does the trick is pretty much common knowledge. The actual mechanics behind why it should be so is probably a mystery to even a lot of bowlers who know how to manipulate seam position to achieve desired swing.