Swing- one persistant Q..

[wellAlbidarned]

Think of the brand-new ball as a disc of sorts, due to the prominent seam and smooth sides which allow smooth, regular air flow around either side of the seam. When you bowl this "disc" spinning straight up and down, but with a slight angle, it'll swing towards the direction where the seam is pointing due to more air being diverted down one side of the "disc", thus pushing it across in its path. Makes sense considering that Dukes, with their high long-lasting seams, are well known to swing more and for longer than Kookaburras, which are much rounder.

 

[unam]

Think of the brand-new ball as a disc of sorts, due to the prominent seam and smooth sides which allow smooth, regular air flow around either side of the seam. When you bowl this "disc" spinning straight up and down, but with a slight angle, it'll swing towards the direction where the seam is pointing due to more air being diverted down one side of the "disc", thus pushing it across in its path. Makes sense considering that Dukes, with their high long-lasting seams, are well known to swing more and for longer than Kookaburras, which are much rounder.

So basically, the ball swings because of different size/shape/weight of the ball on both sides. since the new ball is equal on both sides, we alter the size/shape/weight by using the seam????

 

[Agent Nationaux]

So basically, the ball swings because of different size/shape/weight of the ball on both sides. since the new ball is equal on both sides, we alter the size/shape/weight by using the seam????

It's the surface area being exposed to the air that is changing due to the angled seam.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

So basically, the ball swings because of different size/shape/weight of the ball on both sides. since the new ball is equal on both sides, we alter the size/shape/weight by using the seam????

No, you alter the airflow around the ball using the protruding seam.

 

[Daemon]

how big a factor is breeze?

 

[uvelocity]

either helps or hinders, but a ball will swing regardless. A headwind is beneficial, side wind also depending which way you want to go. I find a tail wind negatively affects swing.

The most interesting and incomprehensible part of it for me is cloud cover & humidity having a large effect.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Bowlers bowling better and swinging it more under cloud cover is a mental thing with bowlers imo, as well as disadvantaging the batsman slightly due to poor light.

A headwind helps swing as it increases the velocity of the ball relative to the air, producing a larger swing force. Having the wind at your back has the opposite effect. As for side-winds, I think it's kind of obvious.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Bowlers bowling better and swinging it more under cloud cover is a mental thing with bowlers imo, as well as disadvantaging the batsman slightly due to poor light.

A headwind helps swing as it increases the velocity of the ball relative to the air, producing a larger swing force. Having the wind at your back has the opposite effect. As for side-winds, I think it's kind of obvious.

I always though that a cloud cover helped swing because of the moisture in the air.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

I always though that a cloud cover helped swing because of the moisture in the air.

That's a myth. Moist air is, in fact, less dense than dry air, so that can't be what's causing it.

 

[uvelocity]

That's a myth. Moist air is, in fact, less dense than dry air, so that can't be what's causing it.

something is, and it's physical not mental

 

[Furball]

That's a myth. Moist air is, in fact, less dense than dry air, so that can't be what's causing it.

What about cool air vs warm air?

 

[wellAlbidarned]

What about cool air vs warm air?

There's a point, cloud cover tends to be associated with colder weather, and cold air is denser than warm air. So that could be a factor.

 

[Merve'sTash]

how big a factor is breeze?

Well, as a swing bowler myself who can as a rule in/ out the ball and for whatever reason --and let's not go there- reverse a ball on most days too, I have cause to think (from experience only/ years that is, as opposed to being in any way a pro std) and contrary to what I'm told generally too.. that a 'normal' breeze, imo, makes absolutely no difference: ie a 5 1/2 oz ball will do whatever it had planned to do. Only once its a strong 'un (a wind lets just say) then of course it will start to affect it. That's my theory- and I stick to it/ see nothing to think otherwise. You might well have wind of your own in my general direction: I dunnae care.

As to original Q.. Im still not convinced of the rudder idea either- Im not saying it couldn't be just this.. but when I swing it either in or out I have the seam absolutely stock staright up, & if I ever tilt it its never swung at all.

It has to be Witchcraft. Either put on us english by the Irish (or scots, french..ad nauseum etc) or on you Aussies by your land's original masters/ owners you nicked the land from. In India its witchcraft is by the Pakistani, and vice versa. In WI a spell is cast from Haiti for playing such a stupid whiteman's game: in SA its simply put on by the black man.. and in Sri Lanka.. Ive absolutely no idea. Some sort of sea creature Id have thought.

 

[uvelocity]

Well, as a swing bowler myself who can as a rule in/ out the ball

well you are doing something significantly different for each delivery, you must have some idea.

 

[Merve'sTash]

Ive an idea when the ball is old, sure, simply by switching the shiny side exactly seam dead-straight/ same ech side for swing either in or out etc (never angling seam- I cannot make the ball swing if I do this).. but my Q relates to a new ball.

Ive certainly never done so with a new cherry/ rarely I can remember facing a new ball batting (no1) either. Swing comes into effect after a few overs mildly so, then progressively more so as one side differs from t'other: exactly as Ive experienced, and as expected for 28 yrs playing.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Well there is a reason why the likes of Anderson et al manage to swing the brand new ball.

 

[Merve'sTash]

Yep.. usually a reason for everything! The reason in JA's case being the most obvious eg as Ive alluded to; any new ball that swings from ball 1 is the point Im asking opinion on. Do you have an opinion on it?

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Yeah, I gave it on the previous page.

 

[benchmark00]

Angle of seam.

For a right armer to a right handed batsman, to swing it out your arm won't be perfectly straight and high, and to bowl in swing you get your arm higher, basically past the perpendicular. Changes the angle the seam is coming from.

 

[weldone]

Forget a cricket ball, the reason even a perfect sphere moving at speed, when given a little wobble, can move laterally even on almost still air is 'Magnus Effect'. In simple terms, the thing is that even when the air is almost static, a moving ball makes the air around it move a bit. And when there's a slight wobble (or rotation) in the moving ball the air around it moves in a way to exert a lateral force on it.

Magnus effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It can do funny things when there's heavy breeze - the 3 kinetics (speed of the ball, rotation in the ball, and the wind) can combine to produce weird results. That's a different story.